Big +Juan, The queuing systems sucks big beaner wiener

Before you comment anything/make a response please, I beg you, read the whole post.
So this will be a serious topic. I will try to make as much points as possible and try making it so people can understand.
1. "ELO is only good for chess"
Now this is a thing I see a lot on the forums, and in chess it was never meant that a low elo player beats a higher elo player, this is what changed on badlion, and I have no idea why people are saying that elo isnt good for badlion/kohi/competitive servers just because it was made for chess. It was made for chess, but it expanded to other games/gamemodes, and it was used for such a long time that the community adapted to it and wont just simply take a change which will remove ELO. ELO was a part of badlion and kohi since the start and me and many other high elo players agree on this, it is something that marks badlion(merged with kohi now) as a server, the elo board, I will make more points as to why ELO is definetly better than the new rating system.

2. "Rankings will replace ELO and are better than ELO"
These rankings were a cool idea at the start when I heard of it, but as soon as I realised that ELO will be gone completely, I would have no complaints about the new rankings if ELO was the main source of seeing a player's skill on the leaderboards, with the rankings being spread throughout the elo points, for example Bronze(>1300), Silver(1400-1700),Gold(1701-1900),Emerald(1901-2000/2050),Diamond(2001/2051-2200 in every other ladder than build, in build diamond would be untill 2400/2500) and finally Masters(in build - 2400/2500+, in any other ladder - 2200+)
These rankings make a problem because the players cannot see their elo/mmr hiding behind and representing these rankings
One more thing on this part is that you guys have said that if you have higher rating than someone else and they win a game against you, you wont lose as much rating as you would( the example was danteh(2800) against a random 2100, you said that on the old ELO he would lose 31 elo, which is the truth), but on these new rating systems you would lose a lot even if you had way more rating than your opponent, the example I will give you was in the beta, and then I will give you another example from my experience in the actual season 13,
Beta example: my friend xlucqs had emerald 4 in uhc/archer, and he started getting 0 rating from people after the search expanded such a huge amount of times, and when he would lose he would lose 70 rating, i know its insane that someone would lose 70 rating with this new system. This glitch was partially patched in the release of season 13.
Actual Season 13 example: so I was on a win streak in the iron soup ladder, I think I had around 8-5( I had 5-5 and I got 3 wins Im pretty sure) and then I lost one game to a blatant hacker https://www.badlion.net/match/arenapvp/1v1/539455 - which u guys said that blatant hackers would get a good kdr and automatically be placed higher up in the rankings, taking less rating/elo from the legit player losing. I lost 32 rating.
https://gyazo.com/96c194a68ad54c2b155a943ea728a6a3 - some words from Immense, another top player
3. Rankings are genuinely better
They really arent. Most of the badlion owners and developers dont actually play the server competitively and dont realise that what they did was wrong/most of the community doesnt agree with, these rankings could look good at the start as something new,but as I said if the players cant see their ELO/MMR behind it they wont like it. The badlion owners/developers had a good idea/used a lot of time for this, but you are currently changing badlion into something you think is for the better, while the arena pvp playerbase doesnt agree with it

PART 2
The Queing System
So, this queing system was at first a cool and good idea, matches you with players of your skill level and the hackers get placed higher so they dont take a lot of rating, seems good?
After playing 100+ games spread out throughout all ladders on badlion I realised that I could only get into a builduhc,sg or nodebuff match easily, if you were to for example go 5-0 in every ladder you would have to sit in the queue for atleast 5 minutes with someone who hasnt won/lost any games in any other ladder than Build,SG,Archer and Nodebuff - the most played ladders on badlion at this moment, I personally tested this out with my friend LungDonation on the vanilla ladder, one of the(in my opinion best) and unplayed ladders on badlion, I have won 5 games, but before that I lost 1 game(will be talked about more down below), so me and my friend joined the queue and we were just waiting and waiting, we were waiting for 16 minutes and after those 16 minutes ShinyDialga rebooted the server because of another bug which didnt have connections with the queing system, the video link will be here(the video rendered twice in those 4 minutes, watch from 1:59)


Now that we got that out of the way, lets talk about the time where I had 1 loss in vanilla and 0 wins, a lot of my friends kept queing in vanilla in hope to get into a match with me, but they kept getting queued with each other, and then me and my friend/pack maker Savv tried queing vanilla, he had no losses and no wins while I had 1 loss, it took us 7 minutes to get into a game, I won the game because he was NA and I actually got the ability to queue people again.
In conclusion, this queing system takes way too long to find a game, I know its supposed to find games with players of the same skill level/rating as you, but it expands WAY too slow and will take 10+ minutes to queue you with someone playing their first ranked games if you have a good ratio/winstreak in the ladder
Gaxriexz is currently Gold 2 in BuildUHC - https://gyazo.com/a54c9e2df9509f2110c140fd69e791af

PART 3
The Knockback(only part I cannot really describe that good)
So you have gathered top players from around the world to test and basically decide what the knockback on the server should be for both speed and non speed, I couldnt get there as it was 1am my time when the test was going on, but currently the knockback for rods/bows is almost minimal, usually does a really small amount of knockback, in the non speed ladders most of the things you can do is trade hits/get a combo rarely, this is basically shown in tylarzz and danteh's 1v1 video(their simmiliar skill level could be the reason for this, but I have a feeling that the knockback had a part in that)
The knockback for speed ladders is currently fine,atleast for me, I didnt really see any big problems, if you have something to add to this topic please comment down below

PART 4
Moving away from ArenaPvP - UHC
the only real problem I see with UHCs atm is the anti xray which lowers people's fps insanely, people are trying to develop bypasses and some of them are still managing to xray
https://www.badlion.net/profile/user/pikachq/punishments - Banned for xray yesterday, admitted to it
https://www.badlion.net/profile/user/ch5/punishments - Banned for xray today, admitted to it
https://www.badlion.net/profile/user/anersfa/punishments - Banned for xray today, admitted to it
https://www.badlion.net/profile/user/Draaaco/punishments - Banned for xray today, admitted to it
Another problem with UHCs are people illegal mining, but this is in no case badlion's problem, just the community breaking rules/ not knowing rules

PART 5
Survival Games
The only problem I see with survival games at this moment is only a couple of maps rotating in the map pool, and even less being picked, I am hoping that this wil be fixed with the release of SG 2.0 where a lot of new maps will be added, this brings me to another point which is that SG 2.0 was announced to come out at the same time as Season 13 for Arena PvP

IN CONCLUSION
I have been playing Badlion since season 6, and it consistenly had a rise in the player count, hitting a peak of 10k+ players on sunday nights/summer months, since the release of Season 13 I saw the player count dropped by a HUGE amount, it is currently 4/5 PM for Europe, everyone already ate lunch most likely and the server has 3200 players, a couple of months back it would have 5k+ players
Rating system has been changed to the worse for the playerbase, the developers and admins are making something they think is better for the server, and not what is better for the community
Queing system was basically destroyed for every ladder than build,sg,archer and nodebuff because it expands way too slow, if the old badlion system was back(the 720 ELO difference) I think that most players would like it, if you didnt like that system, then atleast take kohi's system which expands way faster and find a match pretty quick, the rating based on winstreaks isnt good because if you for example go 20-0 in a ladder which isnt build, good luck joining a match without waiting for 20+ minutes to then gain 5-10 rating/lose 30+
Knockback was changed to worse, even after the top players recommendations, it still isnt good as it was before for non speed ladders, for speed ladders it was fixed in my opinion
UHC's only problem is the anti xray destroying fps, if there was a way to keep it with fps being normal it would be perfect, but I dont think so because you guys would've done it already
Survival Games has no big problems except the same maps repeating over and over(sg 4, par 72, alaskan village and zone 85), when SG 2.0 comes out I could re consider coming back to this post
Another thing my friend Immense found https://gyazo.com/57d5714df6f9177f1d6ea50d22a64327
https://gyazo.com/afb7a6acc1ef54e3cd7dfd17f2a767bb
If you read this whole post which is longer than the Bible then thank you, please +1/-1 and leave ur reasons to why you +1ed/-1ed, also if you like what I said here please use the like button on the post aswell with +1ing it in the replies
ANY FEEDBACK/OPINIONS IS ACCEPTED, IF YOU FEEL LIKE I DID SOMETHING WRONG HERE THEN PLEASE RESPOND WITH WHAT YOU WOULD CHANGE, BUT PLEASE DO NOT START A FIGHT, I TRIED AS HARD AS POSSIBLE NOT START ANY FLAME IN THIS POST

EDIT: https://gyazo.com/c343829d9e4e13c26b7d10af4537d775 - MasterGberry's words, this is a bit outdated but if you are sticking with ratings then I think you should update it for the community to see

I am gonna just write a short essay in response, this is too long and too repetitive for me to spend more time repeating what has already been said publically.

Chess =/= Minecraft. Minecraft matches are very fast. People play 1000s of matches of Minecraft in a season. Chess games are very long and you have the opponent in front of you quite often. There is also no way to cheat in chess. ELO does not make sense for video games that are on a large scale. Since most people here are probably un-educated: Badlion is the one that brought ELO to Minecraft. We are the original creators of any form of a skill based ranking system in Minecraft. We are always going to do what is best to create a competitive and community friendly environment at the same time. A number that people obsess over is not the way to do it. Who defines what is good and bad in ELO? Suddenly being a certain number in ELO at one ladder and not another makes a difference to how things are calculated. It is not the communities responsibility to determine who is good and who is bad in terms of skill level. It is ours. ELO does not provide this. Go look at Season 1 and now go look at Season 12. 1000 ELO difference. Not a good skill based system at all. Danteh is not 1000 ELO better than HattoWolf was back in the day. ELO cannot be translated to skill. I have 100 ELO more than this person, therefore I am 100x better than him. It just means you have a number that is 100 higher, but it cannot actually be converted to a skill level system. I am Diamond 1 vs my Platinum 3 friend. This has a comparison of skill since it is a better measurement of skill for someone who does not understand anything about ELO or the Badlion community. "Oh I a tier (Diamond vs Platinum) higher than my friend and I am also two divisions (1 vs 3) higher than my friend." In addition we are the ones determine the various skill levels and will have public information about the skill levels (e.g. Diamond being top 2%) and such. There is absolutely no benefit to ELO over our new system besides people just being stubborn people and believing that ELO is the best thing in the world, when the reality is you should be bitching about (1) the placement matches [already being fixed] and (2) the matchmaker [already also being fixed]. I made it very clear in this post: https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/129730 that the real problems are being worked on and not the "fake problems" that the community thinks are the issues when in reality they aren't. The new ranking system helps to fix things that ELO does not account for such as winning/losing streaks, not punishing severely for messing up one match, etc. The reason the MMR system we are using was created was to fix the problems that ELO cannot properly handle or solve. Overall the new rating system provides a more user friendly environment rather than obsessing over a number that doesn't really mean much to the new coming players. As I stated earlier, we are the ones that brought ELO to Minecraft, we are now going to be the ones to bring in a new ranking system into it as well that does a better job than ELO.

From what we are seeing publicly people are satisfied with the KB changes made a few days ago. The number of complaints have dropped significantly about the knockback and the gameplay so your #3 doesn't belong in this thread.

As far as chronic cheaters we have some upcoming changes to the ban system and the appeal system that will be cracking down on people cheating harder very soon. People are going to find out very fast that if you are going to (1) ruin the experience of others and (2) waste our time to track you down that all of your accounts will be locked out and a blanket IP ban will be issued very fast.

As far as SG 2.0 maps go they are going to be randomly picked when u join the queue instead of voting for them. That will solve that issue.

We are always hard at work here at Badlion trying to make things the best we can. As explained in the post I linked above there has been a lot of work going on in the background too and I have four developers dedicated to fixing up ArenaPvP Season 13 still at the moment so we can get it all in the 110% state that it should be. I have other things that need to be worried about too and I am dedicating so many of our resources at the moment to ensure that Season 13 is fixed so that we can get back to our 7-8k peaks and eventually grow further. I guarantee by the end of this month at the latest Badlion will be at it's best again rather than the state it is now.

this is a joke am i right? xd

GBerry you are doing this for your partnership I can almost guarantee it. If you cared about the server and what so many people want, you would give us the ELO system and other things people want. Instead, you are using a system that YOU think is going to work. So what if it "WORKS" like it is supposed to? If it's not what the community wants, and you are doing something because YOU believe it is for the best, in this case that makes you a bad server owner. I have nothing against you, and Badlion has practically been my favorite server for over 2 years now, even when I was banned back in the day for cheating without even knowing I was cheating(May 2014). Do what you want, see how it works for you. If you think this is going to work and it isn't absolutely perfect in a way that no one can complain (which by the way isn't going to happen) then I guarantee as I said above that this is all about that partnership and you simply don't care about what we WANT.

I am gonna just write a short essay in response, this is too long and too repetitive for me to spend more time repeating what has already been said publically.

Chess =/= Minecraft. Minecraft matches are very fast. People play 1000s of matches of Minecraft in a season. Chess games are very long and you have the opponent in front of you quite often. There is also no way to cheat in chess. ELO does not make sense for video games that are on a large scale. Since most people here are probably un-educated: Badlion is the one that brought ELO to Minecraft. We are the original creators of any form of a skill based ranking system in Minecraft. We are always going to do what is best to create a competitive and community friendly environment at the same time. A number that people obsess over is not the way to do it. Who defines what is good and bad in ELO? Suddenly being a certain number in ELO at one ladder and not another makes a difference to how things are calculated. It is not the communities responsibility to determine who is good and who is bad in terms of skill level. It is ours. ELO does not provide this. Go look at Season 1 and now go look at Season 12. 1000 ELO difference. Not a good skill based system at all. Danteh is not 1000 ELO better than HattoWolf was back in the day. ELO cannot be translated to skill. I have 100 ELO more than this person, therefore I am 100x better than him. It just means you have a number that is 100 higher, but it cannot actually be converted to a skill level system. I am Diamond 1 vs my Platinum 3 friend. This has a comparison of skill since it is a better measurement of skill for someone who does not understand anything about ELO or the Badlion community. "Oh I a tier (Diamond vs Platinum) higher than my friend and I am also two divisions (1 vs 3) higher than my friend." In addition we are the ones determine the various skill levels and will have public information about the skill levels (e.g. Diamond being top 2%) and such. There is absolutely no benefit to ELO over our new system besides people just being stubborn people and believing that ELO is the best thing in the world, when the reality is you should be bitching about (1) the placement matches [already being fixed] and (2) the matchmaker [already also being fixed]. I made it very clear in this post: https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/129730 that the real problems are being worked on and not the "fake problems" that the community thinks are the issues when in reality they aren't. The new ranking system helps to fix things that ELO does not account for such as winning/losing streaks, not punishing severely for messing up one match, etc. The reason the MMR system we are using was created was to fix the problems that ELO cannot properly handle or solve. Overall the new rating system provides a more user friendly environment rather than obsessing over a number that doesn't really mean much to the new coming players. As I stated earlier, we are the ones that brought ELO to Minecraft, we are now going to be the ones to bring in a new ranking system into it as well that does a better job than ELO.

From what we are seeing publicly people are satisfied with the KB changes made a few days ago. The number of complaints have dropped significantly about the knockback and the gameplay so your #3 doesn't belong in this thread.

As far as chronic cheaters we have some upcoming changes to the ban system and the appeal system that will be cracking down on people cheating harder very soon. People are going to find out very fast that if you are going to (1) ruin the experience of others and (2) waste our time to track you down that all of your accounts will be locked out and a blanket IP ban will be issued very fast.

As far as SG 2.0 maps go they are going to be randomly picked when u join the queue instead of voting for them. That will solve that issue.

We are always hard at work here at Badlion trying to make things the best we can. As explained in the post I linked above there has been a lot of work going on in the background too and I have four developers dedicated to fixing up ArenaPvP Season 13 still at the moment so we can get it all in the 110% state that it should be. I have other things that need to be worried about too and I am dedicating so many of our resources at the moment to ensure that Season 13 is fixed so that we can get back to our 7-8k peaks and eventually grow further. I guarantee by the end of this month at the latest Badlion will be at it's best again rather than the state it is now.