Posted on 10 October 2016 - 08:51 AM
100% honest. Aside from the additions like placement matches and scanning for close ranks (those could've been added onto elo) what exactly makes MMR better?Posted on 10 October 2016 - 08:56 AM
As Archy already said, elo originaly came from chess and chess games last for a long time. Elo isn't really a good thing on a game where u can grind out 100's of matches a day. Now,I prefer MRR because it doesn't feel like grinding 1400's anymore. I also think that players getting different "points" when the match ends is good. MRR feels harder and I enjoy it way more than I enjoy elo.Posted on 10 October 2016 - 09:27 AM
Valyn wrote
1. "As Archy already said, elo originaly came from chess and chess games last for a long time. Elo isn't really a good thing on a game where u can grind out 100's of matches a day" This makes some sense for reasoning against elo, but this doesn't explain shit on why MMR is better than elo.
2. "Now,I prefer MRR because it doesn't feel like grinding 1400's anymore." Yeah, this also doesn't mean shit. You can still grind off of people tiers below you. We could've made it harder to grind off 1400s by adding the scanning system.
3. "I also think that players getting different "points" when the match ends is good" Lol? You got different points with elo as well?
4. "MRR feels harder and I enjoy it way more than I enjoy elo" again, doesn't mean anything, this is just an opinioned statement
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 09:57 AM
Valyn wrote
Didnt see a single good reason in this reply
Last edited on 10 October 2016 - 10:08 AM by RealBlobRobber
They're different systems and they really can't be compared but here's my take on it:The original MMR system was a lot better in S13 because it still held the idea of going on winning streaks and making one odd loss not hurt you. Those were the key points that made it a better system. At this same time the majority of the server wanted elo back so it was changed to be basically elo with ranks in S14. This new system introduced in S14 is little to no better than elo in my opinion. Most of this elo vs mmr argument is opinion vs opinion and there is no way to determine which is better. The points brought up earlier about how "elo is for large chess matches" doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me becaus the way points are transferred doesn't have any sort of correlation to the length of a match. I still think the S13 MMR was a good system and should've been left untouched aside from adding the 1/1000 bar. So there are pros and cons to both systems but at this point they're so similar that it's hard to determine the better one.
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 10:17 AM
"The placement matches do a nice job at shoving the player into the right bracket of where they should be starting off the season." Archy said this somewhere but how is it true? the maximum you get now is gold 5 and have to grind a lot of matches to get anywhere high..Posted on 10 October 2016 - 10:28 AM
SuperSandwish wrote
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 10:34 AM
Honestly not much, but i prefer MMR over ELO any day.The main difference i guess is that unlike ELO where whatever you gain or lose your opponent gains or losses the same in MMR its not like this which is a big reason i prefer MMR over ELO.
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 11:09 AM
Unshift wrote
SuperSandwish wrote...
Last edited on 10 October 2016 - 11:45 AM by Archybot
The S13 PURE MMR system worked perfectly when it came to placing people. There were no caps, and it placed people with near perfection after their 20 games. Just look at S13 and S14 global and Build ladders. Right now, people are just starting to break into global E5, and people were in E5 within their full completed placements if they belong there in S13. E5 is the highest S13 and S14 global. Same with build, most of the top players (including hackers) got placed in high emerald and low diamond, and worked their way up to D4/5. Right now, the top players had to grind their way up to D4/5. S13 was perfect in placement - too perfect. There also isn't as much forgiveness in S14 as there was in S13 for one loss.S14 MMR isn't pure MMR, it's a ELO/MMR hybrid that I personally designed to appease the non-stop fucking complaining/entitlement of this community. It has low placements, high grind just like ELO, but it's still better at showing skill. The same bellcurve exists in S14 as it did in S13, it just takes a lot longer to reach where you belong in S14 because you guys wanted to grind (same maxes in almost all ladders in S13/14). It's still faster to get to where you belong compared to ELO. When compared to ELO, my system requires the same amount of equal-skill matches to go up a "tier", but more to fall down a tier. Also at worst case scenario it's 2x less grind per loss at high grind. There is no hacker forgiveness in this system anymore, because it doesn't work with this system.
So why is this system better then pure ELO?
1. A little less grind at the start
2. 50% less punishment for losing a single game at high levels to a lowbie
3. You can gain points fighting anyone, not just someone within 700 of you
4. Nothing is worse in my hybrid system then in ELO, only better or the same
Last edited on 10 October 2016 - 12:10 PM by Player201q
-snip-Posted on 10 October 2016 - 02:56 PM
The only things I like about this are the ranks and divisions that were introduced. Feels better to be set in a division rather than a number.Posted on 10 October 2016 - 04:25 PM
Yet it takes at least 30 seconds to find a game which isn't build UHC or SG @Archybot. Not to mention the bug where you can't leave a ranked queue. The concept of MMR is good, but the actual system which has been coded to support this system, needs A LOT of work…Posted on 10 October 2016 - 04:27 PM
Jinxful wrote
That has nothing to do with MMR, that all has to do with the matchmaker, which would still exist and would STILL have these same problems if we were using ELO, and they would actually be WORSE because ELO equal match is an incredibly small (10 differents) while MMR can be a lot more then that.
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 04:28 PM
Archybot wrote
Jinxful wrote...
That has nothing to do with MMR, that all has to do with the matchmaker, which would still exist and would STILL have these same problems if we were using ELO, and they would actually be WORSE because ELO equal match is an incredibly small (10 differents) while MMR can be a lot more then that.
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 05:02 PM
Jinxful wrote
Archybot wrote...
It does…
Posted on 10 October 2016 - 05:11 PM
Idk I like the current rating systemPosted on 10 October 2016 - 07:05 PM
Archybot wrote
S14 MMR isn't pure MMR, it's a ELO/MMR hybrid that I personally designed to appease the non-stop fucking complaining/entitlement of this community. It has low placements, high grind just like ELO, but it's still better at showing skill. The same bellcurve exists in S14 as it did in S13, it just takes a lot longer to reach where you belong in S14 because you guys wanted to grind (same maxes in almost all ladders in S13/14). It's still faster to get to where you belong compared to ELO. When compared to ELO, my system requires the same amount of equal-skill matches to go up a "tier", but more to fall down a tier. Also at worst case scenario it's 2x less grind per loss at high grind. There is no hacker forgiveness in this system anymore, because it doesn't work with this system.
So why is this system better then pure ELO?
1. A little less grind at the start
2. 50% less punishment for losing a single game at high levels to a lowbie
3. You can gain points fighting anyone, not just someone within 700 of you
4. Nothing is worse in my hybrid system then in ELO, only better or the same
If Badlion gains more players on ArenaPvP (25), wouldn't it be possible to move closer to MMR and get the same result as now?
Last edited on 10 October 2016 - 07:35 PM by iHackLiTE
there is literally nothing better about the current ranking system other than the visual satisfaction, except maybe a few minor things that arent worth attention. nothing that was supposed to be in mmr is actually in mmr because people complained about not having elo. i hate them both, i'd rather have the actual mmr that archy was originally going to havePosted on 10 October 2016 - 08:13 PM