Last edited on 04 November 2016 - 09:58 PM by Unwise
Time to update my answer to the old MMR versus elo question.First off:
What MMR rank is equivalent to 1400 elo?
The previous MMR to elo conversion assumed that Silver 3 was 1400. I can prove that it's actually Silver 2.
https://www.badlion.net/profile/user/devilic
This alt of mine is currently has over Silver II global, despite having only 10 matches played. There are currently 12 ladders. If we say Gold 5 0 points is 2000 points above Silver 2 0 points (basic logic) and I have another 713 points, this means I'm 2713 above Silver 2. We then divide by 12, and get around 226, which is… exactly how many global points I have above Silver 2!
So Silver 2 is 100%, verifiably, equivalent to 1400 elo in all ladders.
What elo is equivalent to Masters?
A commonly cited claim, verified by Archy early on, is that Season 12 only had 4 BuildUHC masters. Considering there were only four players above 2700 elo, assuming 2700 is masters seems like a fair assumption.
How many points is 1 elo?
If we assume 2700 is Masters, then everything gets pretty easy. Silver 2 -> Masters is 17000 points, and 1400 -> 2700 is 1300 elo. This means 13 points is about equal to 1 elo. The smallest amount of points you can win in a single match is 13, which lines up perfectly.
So what does the conversion look like?
We end up with around 76.5 elo per rank.
Silver 2: 1400
Silver 1: 1476.5
Gold 5: 1553
Gold 4: 1629.5
Gold 3: 1706
Gold 2: 1782.5
Gold 1: 1859
Emerald 5: 1935.5
Emerald 4: 2012
Emerald 3: 2088.5
Emerald 2: 2165
Emerald 1: 2241.5
Diamond 5: 2318
Diamond 4: 2394.5
Diamond 3: 2471
Diamond 2: 2547.5
Diamond 1: 2624
Masters: 2700
Is this conversion the same for all ladders?
This is where things get even more complicated, because we have to attempt to differentiate between inflation, different scales, and the differences inherent in the switch between MMR and elo.
Top 2 elos in three ladders S12 compared to top 2 converted elos in S14:
Vanilla:
2154 and 2104 vs both about 2000
Archer:
2413 and 2353 vs around 2500 and around 2350
SG:
2222 and 2195 vs around 2200 and 2150
This is obviously very approximate and far from an exact methodology, but it seems like the scale is the same for all ladders. This makes sense considering global elo is an even average of each of the ladders.
What are the systematic differences between elo and MMR?
Ignoring the weirdness of promotion and demotion matches, which I won't even attempt to decode here, there are a few clear differences.
For one, everyone can fight everyone - in the past, a 2600 couldn't fight anyone below 1880, while now a Diamond 1 (around 2600) can still get 13 points (1 elo) from a Silver 2 (1400). You also can't win/lose any more than 214 points (16.5 elo) per match. This has a few key effects that entirely change how Badlion's leaderboards function:
1. Grinding is moderately easier at the upper end of the spectrum.
2. You get drained for less.
3. You climb the leaderboards more slowly early on.
There's also some weird "elasticity" factors that play a role, but considering those aren't easily quantifiable, I haven't included them.
This accounts for the majority of the differences you see in the leaderboards.
Posted on 04 November 2016 - 05:19 PM
THANKSPosted on 04 November 2016 - 07:22 PM
I guess I do in fact have the most pot elo ever ¯\_ツ_/¯Posted on 04 November 2016 - 07:24 PM
iHackLiTE wrote
It doesn't exactly directly translate, because getting from Diamond 3 -> Diamond 1 is arguably a bit easier than getting from 2500 -> 2600, but it's true, what you've accomplished is pretty impressive.
Posted on 04 November 2016 - 07:28 PM
I think that this is completely false, I think the point of the MMR system was the make it on a completely different scale of elo, and I do not think they are able to be cross reference in a way like this, it's like 2 different graphs with no correlation, they cannot be translated. That's just my opinion.Posted on 04 November 2016 - 07:30 PM
Nice thread :PPosted on 04 November 2016 - 07:58 PM
Minimum you gain is 13, not 14.You can also see that silver 2 is what you start at by getting a ladder down below silver 2 in your placement matches. What happens then is that your Highest Rating is displayed as silver 2.
Posted on 04 November 2016 - 09:54 PM
KingMolecule wrote
You're objectively incorrect - Archy has confirmed there's a direct conversion. The real question is if the conversion still shows the same amount of achievement, which is debateable.
Posted on 04 November 2016 - 09:54 PM
Unshift wrote
You can also see that silver 2 is what you start at by getting a ladder down below silver 2 in your placement matches. What happens then is that your Highest Rating is displayed as silver 2.
Sweet, that makes everything so much cleaner.
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 12:38 AM
this should be pinnedgood thread
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 01:02 AM
Skillapp wrote
good thread
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 01:06 AM
@Unwise since you can't have .5 of an elo, wouldn't you round it up to 77, because thats what I did, and the results were a tad different?Posted on 05 November 2016 - 01:50 AM
i was 2100 in s12 and im now 2165 (emerald II) wtfi thought it would be atleast 2300
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 04:31 AM
Skillapp wrote
This is a bit more precise. Doesn't really matter either way.
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 10:26 AM
Unwise wrote
KingMolecule wrote...
You're objectively incorrect - Archy has confirmed there's a direct conversion. The real question is if the conversion still shows the same amount of achievement, which is debateable.
Hm, so just to clarify, there is a correlation between elo and mmr but the translation is not confirmed?
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 10:50 AM
Skillapp wrote
good thread
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 01:09 PM
GoodEnchant wrote
Skillapp wrote...
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 01:19 PM
Posted on 05 November 2016 - 02:29 PM
KingMolecule wrote
Unwise wrote...
Hm, so just to clarify, there is a correlation between elo and mmr but the translation is not confirmed?
Essentially.
Last edited on 05 November 2016 - 05:18 PM by majerSNACK
couldnt you just say silver II 0 points is 1400 because thats where you start, just like elo?instead of doing all that math