Posted on 02 January 2017 - 02:02 AM

Warning
There's a lot to read so if you do read all of it, well, good for you. :)

I'm mainly wondering why the mass amounts of threads that are made about fixing builduhc or vanilla or any ladder are being ignored by people who can change the kit. I scroll through this section on the forums and 7/10 threads is remove some arrows from build or remove a lava or something to help better balance the kit. Then there's the occasional fix other kits like vanilla but those don't show up as often as builduhc ones, even though vanilla has much bigger problems. Archy said a while back that he doesn't plan on editing the BuildUHC kit and I'm wondering why. I know he said that everyone would hate it and it would be like the change to MMR all over again, but worse. The only reason MMR had such a huge revolt when it was implemented was because no one asked for it. It was brought out of nowhere and completely threw everyone off. Their argument for people who opposed MMR was that it was a needed change and that elo was broken. Now clearly this sounds like about every BuildUHC thread I see. The ladder is very unbalanced right now and is "broken". The bow is massively overpowered and so is lava. Now even though I primarily play sword ladders and am good at melee, I'm going to try to not be biased the rest of this thread. Here's what I suggest needs fixed with arena kits right now. Feedback is appreciated, but this is mainly just a collection and more balanced version of the rest of these posts that I see daily.

32 Arrows
The current 64 arrows used to be an acceptable amount. No one used to abuse them and the ladder was enjoyable to play until this season. Now I don't think this is just because people realized how overpowered using all or most of these arrows is, but the "broken kb". The knockback this season isn't broken, it's the rod knockback that's broken. Rods don't really move people like they did in season 12, making people use their bow more like one. People are also not really bow spamming, but playing a lot more "sweaty". I don't really know how to word what I mean but I think anyone that actually has played more than 100 or 200 matches and is emerald or close to it knows what I mean. People are just being annoying with their bow. It's to the point to where I'm taking off my armor 2/5 fights just because I don't want my match to last longer than 5 minutes to people desperate for rating. I'm not saying this is a bad thing, after all this is a competitive server, of course people are going to try their hardest to win. But when something is retardedly overpowered and people abuse it, then there are problems.

1 Lava
Now I'm a lava spammer myself, mostly to counter the other problems with the kit but even other lava spammers will agree that this is a problem, as well as other bow spammers will agree the arrow count is a problem in build (could tag some but they will most likely see this anyway). Right now lava is currently very glitchy. I know this will be fixed in the new client but for the people that don't use the client or don't know about it on Badlion Open, they shouldn't have to be at that big of a disadvantage. 9/10 fights of someone using the client without the bugs vs someone using it with the bugs, the one with the client will win. A fight against 2 people of near equal skill shouldn't be decided by who's lava and water glitch less. I feel as if I strayed a bit off topic of lava spamming but those are still other problems that just make lava stupid. I know everyone said no FnS so the only alternative is 1 lava. 1 lava wouldn't be too bad. People will still want to be able to spam it, or get as much use out of it as they can before someone blocks it up or waters over it, but people will have to be more conservative with it. People won't just throw down 1 lava without care, knowing they have another in case they don't get that lava back like they do now. With 1 lava, I believe people will tend to play more careful and less sweaty bringing a bigger skill factor back into the kit that used to exist in s12.

1 Water
Water spacing has been a HUGE problem this season and is a stupid way of getting free hits on people, and just angering them in general. This could easily be argued that it's a tactic and that you are just getting out played and that there are counters to it and well sure there are counters to everything, but they aren't that easy to do. You only have to place water for half a second then you can pick it up. Yes you can pick it up before they do or block it up but to have those kinds of reactions when you are focused on every other factor of the kit is near impossible. If you get lucky you block up one water, but oh wait, they have another. I'm going to say the same thing I said about only having one lava. If you only have one water, you are going to play more conservative with it. You aren't going to risk getting it blocked up because that could change the entire fight. The only down side to this is that if your one water gets blocked up you are genuinely screwed. People will just place lava on you and run around and bow you till you die just to guarantee the win. I'm personally neutral to this idea but I've seen it before so I thought i would bring it up and share my opinion.

One stack of blocks
I don't know how this would fix anything. The only reason this is brought up is by people who either bow spam and get mad that people are blocking up, or by people who do other stupid tactics mentioned above and get their water/lava blocked up. The only good thing that could come from this is that people wouldn't be able to camp in corners or camp in general much anymore, but I don't see people camp at all at high levels. If anything this is only a problem in 2v2's because they combined have 4 stacks of blocks but I don't think that;s a big enough issue to change the kit over.

Removing a gapple
I only saw this on one thread and I don't think anyone ended up responding to it, but i thought this was actually a good idea personally. Right now people just pregap almost every fight. The point of a gapple when it was added to the game was to regenerate your health, not give you more. Yes, they added absorption after the gapple existed to give you more health but I don't think anyone planned on using it in this way. I mean the other alternative is to remove absorption from the kit which might not be too bad of an idea, but that defeats the whole purpose of the kit as 99% of uhc's now have absorption enabled. I wouldn't say pregapping is even a bad thing. It's a legit tactic but this was mentioned before in another thread, so might as well bring it back up and see what everyone else thinks about it.

Changing the armor enchantments
I'm gonna be honest, I have never seen anyone in my entire life have projectile protection 2 on anything ever in a uhc. Yes this is to nerf how much damage the bow does, but you could just make the bow power 2 and put prot 1 on these pieces. This would make sword crits not do 3 and a half like they feel like they do now, while still making normal sword hits do a reasonable amount of damage.

Rod spamming
This is only a problem because people don't take any kb from a rod. No real way to fix this either and if you did, it wouldn't feel right.



Onto just some aesthetic changes that would make the kit feel nicer, and just make you stand out from others.

Change what food you have
This really isn't a big deal and no fight should get to the point to where you need to eat steak, but being able to have golden carrots or something would just feel nice, like in nodebuff and other pot ladders. It doesn't change the kit at all pvp wise and I can't see a reasonable argument against it other than the fact that it's a waste of time to implement.

Changing what blocks you can place
Now this is an idea I came up with on my own and would be quite hard to explain how it works because I don't know how the way they remove blocks after each fight works, but it would be really nice to be able to use different blocks to build with. Obviously there would be a limited selection of blocks you could use to make them all break around the same time as cobble and wood do with their respective tools, but I think this would be a nice feature. Some blocks that could be used could include:
- The other 5 types of wooden planks
- Mossy cobblestone
- Wood logs
- Any ore block (Not the actual ore, but the block you need 9 of the ore to make)
- All forms of stone brick
- Stained Clay
This is probably a stupid suggestion and will get a ton of hate but personally, I feel like the BuildUHC kit isn't as customization as it should be. Obviously none of these change gameplay at all, but are features to make you stand out and feel different from others.

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 02:07 AM

Let's just get rid of Build UHC it is a boring kit tbh

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 02:11 AM

love u superneil

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 02:22 AM

yeah like who wants to sit around for like 5 minutes bow spamming with your little cobble and wood fortress amirite

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 02:43 AM

32 arrows : +1
1 lava: +1
1 water: neutral
removing a gapple: -1
rod spamming: -1
one stack of blocks: +1
food: neutral

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 05:39 AM

+1 for one lava, 32 arrows and a stack of blocks
-1 for 1 water and changing blocks you can place
neutral the rest

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 08:59 AM

No, ideas aren't implemented because it's just that most threads in general are just locked and disregarded nowadays. Especially if MeMyselfAndCube has put in a request to lock it.

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 10:47 AM

+1

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 03:11 PM

Let's just shut down Arena. No one appreciates it and everyone is always just complaining anyways

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 03:22 PM

At top, the bow rarely gets spammed this much as far as I can tell, which doesn't mean top players can handle the bow spammers, you just can't handle it. I honestly don't see the point of changing arrow count, but if I did it would be down to 48, not 32.



Gonna group these two together. The biggest issue I have with this is by removing secondaries, you are removing skill. If you want a ladder that focuses hard on pure pvp, there are 11 other ranked ladders that do that. Secondaries is one of the things that make Build really unique and why it has such a high skill cap. Also 2 lava/water allow upsets occasionally, and upsets are important to keeping interest in the ladder.


One stack of blocks is something I've considered for a while, but idk

The correct thing to do would to be just to add absorption 2 hearts on spawn in to prevent the pre-gap shit.

I have no intention of changing the core kit stuff.

I beg to differ, but ok.

I mean I could change it to anything, but in reality you should never be eating it like you said.


We've actually thought of this, but since all of those don't break evenly we would have to manually break them causing a weird desync between server/client or we would be Anti-EULA unless it was available to everyone. If it's available to everyone, people will just use whatever block is the hardest to break.

Honestly, I am petrified of changing this kit which is why it won't be changed most likely. I do not want to deal with the backlash of changing our most popular kit, especially after the ELO/MMR backlash.

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 03:39 PM

I see what you mean and 100% agree. Whether you change it or not, some group of people will be angry, there is no balance in between. The only reasonably option that I can see working is putting a few polls up on the Badlion twitter like 48 vs 64 arrows, 1 stack of blocks vs 2, etc. Now not everyone that plays badlion has a twitter but its as close of a vote as I can see one being that represents what the community wants.

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 03:44 PM

yeah fuck arena bring back kohi

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 04:24 PM

agree with the bow part, top players can counter bowspam
the lava water part is a little iffy cause you're taking away certain skillsets and replacing them with others like reb clicks 6 cps but gets away with it bc he lava spams but ppl who don't lava spam with crazy aim are still at disadvantage so :I
i think with 1 stack of arrows part of countering bowspam is walling and you run out of a stack pretty quickly
it should be up to the player whether they pregap or not, different people pregap and others dont until they take like 2 bow shots
armor is good
rod is a lil wacky but i remember asking for it this way so i cant say anything
dont think i've had to eat steak once this season in build
the changing block thing would be alright if the blocks chosen are only blocks that take the same amount of time and dont change the game which is costmetic

pretty well said archy the kit doesnt have many overall issues going into premium

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 05:08 PM

This is my opinion. Build UHC takes lots of combined skill, and the people who are the best at build generally tick all the boxes, Bow, sword, rod,lava placement. Just because someones primary skill lies in the bow, doesn't mean you punish the bow community because they use it a lot, you wouldn't call someone a "Melee spammer." I get it when your 5 blocks away and all they are doing is spamming it which is really fucking annoying so why not make there be a radius where bow shots do no damage? All I'm saying is just because most people are more skilled in melee doesn't mean you punish the bow players. I feel the kit is fine how it is. If you can't deal with bow players, learn bow… don't just sit around after a fight and say "Well he is a spammer so what am i mean to do?" When people say bow is ping based what are they taking about? (Ofc I know if you have 1000 ping it will be delayed.) *20 mellee players roast me on this

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 05:56 PM

Fuck u

we need more lava

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 06:44 PM

Automatically Deleted

Posted on 02 January 2017 - 09:04 PM

minus one

Posted on 03 January 2017 - 10:15 AM

reb without lava=bronze 5?!?!?!?!

Posted on 03 January 2017 - 10:19 AM

you overrate me lol

Posted on 03 January 2017 - 11:11 AM

If you remove a gapple people will still pregapp (LOL). By the way who fucking cares. Why the fuck would you change the armor enchantment there's literally no difference. Again who cares. Change what food you have? It's pointless. So 1 water? So your water glitches once and he blocks it up and you're dead! great idea imo ily tysm ur the best!1! !1