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NA IronSoup 1v1 - August 19th - Review
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 07:06 PM
Kikzo wrote
Ponca wrote...
who even are you and why are you desperately trying to involve yourself into everything just to be relevant for once? i dont know if you're either attention seeking or just really immature or both.
about the tournament: everything apart the organization of the matches was quite poor in my opinion, the loser brackets were unneeded and took way too much time. they are a good addition for smaller tournaments but in this case they just unneededly extended the tournament, which already was long enough. also bad work from the sr. mods im afraid, i got straight up ignored after trying to get someone to check my opponents logs, even after asking mutliple times. and if roxas was NOT banned due to logs then i'm 99% sure it's a false ban, he's an og souper and just really damn good. nice to see someone who records himself cheating getting a money prize and staff doesn't even care, congrats however to joyful, bobo and ted for their deserved spots.
Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it. The losers bracket is something I've been wanting to do since we've gotten pretty good at running things efficiently. Honestly I don't think 3 hours (what it would've been if the server didn't die) is too bad for a 1v1 tourney, but I can see how someone in the winners bracket could get annoyed by the constant waiting. In the future we'll try to figure out a better balance of how many players is too many for double elimination, but I felt that especially with soup, there was some value to it.
We were checking logs the entire tournament, I assure you we saw your messages and knew it was being handled. You have to understand that by the top 16, everyone who dies thinks their opponent was hacking and wants to let all the mods know about it. It's our job to be efficient in letting the GCheat Admins know whose logs to go through, which means you won't get responses to all your hackusations.
Last edited on 19 August 2017 - 07:08 PM by BustyBista
Ny_ wrote
Kikzo wrote...
Sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it. The losers bracket is something I've been wanting to do since we've gotten pretty good at running things efficiently. Honestly I don't think 3 hours (what it would've been if the server didn't die) is too bad for a 1v1 tourney, but I can see how someone in the winners bracket could get annoyed by the constant waiting. In the future we'll try to figure out a better balance of how many players is too many for double elimination, but I felt that especially with soup, there was some value to it.
We were checking logs the entire tournament, I assure you we saw your messages and knew it was being handled. You have to understand that by the top 16, everyone who dies thinks their opponent was hacking and wants to let all the mods know about it. It's our job to be efficient in letting the GCheat Admins know whose logs to go through, which means you won't get responses to all your hackusations.
@ginie1 Give this kid admin
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 08:00 PM
Ny_ wrote
A couple questions for discussion:
How do you think we should seed the CTF tournament? We are still deciding on this, as we don't want to have any issues with good teams versing each other early, but we also don't want to overexert our influence on the tournament and risk bias by hand-seeding all the teams.
What kind of streamer do you prefer? A more well-known streamer who may be less familiar with the gamemode or individual players (e.g. Huawhi) or a lesser-known streamer with better insight on gamemodes and individual players (a mapmaker/player from the community)? We're unsure if the benefit of possible exposure will be worth it in CTF if the streamer doesn't clearly understand the map.
Finally, do you feel that spectating matches is a valuable aspect of tournaments? Tournament spectating has led to numerous problems over the years, and we wonder if it's worth continuing to allow and encourage specs in matches.
How do you think we should seed the CTF tournament? We are still deciding on this, as we don't want to have any issues with good teams versing each other early, but we also don't want to overexert our influence on the tournament and risk bias by hand-seeding all the teams.
What kind of streamer do you prefer? A more well-known streamer who may be less familiar with the gamemode or individual players (e.g. Huawhi) or a lesser-known streamer with better insight on gamemodes and individual players (a mapmaker/player from the community)? We're unsure if the benefit of possible exposure will be worth it in CTF if the streamer doesn't clearly understand the map.
Finally, do you feel that spectating matches is a valuable aspect of tournaments? Tournament spectating has led to numerous problems over the years, and we wonder if it's worth continuing to allow and encourage specs in matches.
Use bias to seed amd have huahwi stream
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 08:02 PM
Kikzo wrote
Ponca wrote...
who even are you and why are you desperately trying to involve yourself into everything just to be relevant for once? i dont know if you're either attention seeking or just really immature or both.
about the tournament: everything apart the organization of the matches was quite poor in my opinion, the loser brackets were unneeded and took way too much time. they are a good addition for smaller tournaments but in this case they just unneededly extended the tournament, which already was long enough. also bad work from the sr. mods im afraid, i got straight up ignored after trying to get someone to check my opponents logs, even after asking mutliple times. and if roxas was NOT banned due to logs then i'm 99% sure it's a false ban, he's an og souper and just really damn good. nice to see someone who records himself cheating getting a money prize and staff doesn't even care, congrats however to joyful, bobo and ted for their deserved spots.
Top mmr takes no skill
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 08:46 PM
JakePaulFan1 wrote
Kikzo wrote...
Top mmr takes no skill
Yes it does, Inner don't be silly!
Last edited on 19 August 2017 - 08:53 PM by Drained
Thanks for hosting the tournament!The overall organisation of the tournament was smooth. Whenever I asked any of the tournament staff a question I got a fast response. They also dealt with the annoyance of me being muted, which made communication difficult. The tournament took longer than I expected, which ultimately lead to me getting very tired, causing me to quickdrop.
The ending of the tournament was quite unfortunate though. After spending over 3 hours in the tournament, I lost my prize rank due to a player using fairly obvious unfair advantages. After stalling for about 15 minutes, asking staff to double check his logs and even requesting for a screenshare, they eventually told me that the results are final. All I really want is to recieve my donator rank prize once the player who beat me gets banned. The only thing the tournament staff could have done better is to screenshare the player.
Good fight @bobo50cent and congrats @*deleted-128374 and ted_iously on your placings.
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 09:10 PM
Drained wrote
Thanks for hosting the tournament!
The overall organisation of the tournament was smooth. Whenever I asked any of the tournament staff a question I got a fast response. They also dealt with the annoyance of me being muted, which made communication difficult. The tournament took longer than I expected, which ultimately lead to me getting very tired, causing me to quickdrop.
The ending of the tournament was quite unfortunate though. After spending over 3 hours in the tournament, I lost my prize rank due to a player using fairly obvious unfair advantages. After stalling for about 15 minutes, asking staff to double check his logs and even requesting for a screenshare, they eventually told me that the results are final. All I really want is to recieve my donator rank prize once the player who beat me gets banned. The only thing the tournament staff could have done better is to screenshare the player.
Good fight @bobo50cent and congrats @*deleted-128374 and ted_iously on your placings.
The overall organisation of the tournament was smooth. Whenever I asked any of the tournament staff a question I got a fast response. They also dealt with the annoyance of me being muted, which made communication difficult. The tournament took longer than I expected, which ultimately lead to me getting very tired, causing me to quickdrop.
The ending of the tournament was quite unfortunate though. After spending over 3 hours in the tournament, I lost my prize rank due to a player using fairly obvious unfair advantages. After stalling for about 15 minutes, asking staff to double check his logs and even requesting for a screenshare, they eventually told me that the results are final. All I really want is to recieve my donator rank prize once the player who beat me gets banned. The only thing the tournament staff could have done better is to screenshare the player.
Good fight @bobo50cent and congrats @*deleted-128374 and ted_iously on your placings.
cow skin + rat pvp + rand = hacker
ROFL
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 09:14 PM
whens it gonna catch letmeclarifyPosted on 19 August 2017 - 09:22 PM
xHeimskr wrote
Drained wrote...
cow skin + rat pvp + rand = hacker
ROFL
As soon as you found out noone was able to watch our fight you started pvping better than before! Your arms grew stronger :333
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 09:30 PM
Drained wrote
xHeimskr wrote...
As soon as you found out noone was able to watch our fight you started pvping better than before! Your arms grew stronger :333
LOL? I didnt even know that until the tourney finished
Posted on 19 August 2017 - 09:30 PM
This tournament although NA was really marketed to EU players as it began at 10am which is still pretty early. I couldn't make the tournament due to the fact it was pushed back and that's upsetting. Next time try to start it later to revive some of the competitive NA community. There's few good players anymorePosted on 19 August 2017 - 10:19 PM
@xHeimskr should be banned he cheats.Posted on 19 August 2017 - 11:32 PM
logangsterSPKY wrote
@xHeimskr should be banned he cheats.
Posted on 20 August 2017 - 01:55 AM
Thanks for hosting this event it was a really fun tourney. I believe it ran very smoothly and was organised. Anytime there was a small error or problem the staff were quick to fix it (thanks). I overall didn't do well as I only got to around round 6 but it was really fun spectating the tournament from then on in.I believe it is a shame that since there was a round when xHeimskr fought @Drained in the semi-finals of the losers bracket which no one was spectating. In this match it was believed the player was cheating according to a lot of people and its a shame no one could've watched it.
As for the bug where a player (me) got teleported into a match. Im pretty sure I know how I did it although it was a total mistake. I wanted to spec the fight between bobo50cent and xheimskr so I ran the command /spec xheimskr, there was a bit of delay in teleporting me for some reason and I just assumed speccing wasn't working as it wasn't some previous times during the tourney. I then proceeded to join a ranked match of build uhc and the second I got my kit in build uhc I got teleported to the fight between bobo50cent and xheimskr. Luckily I didn't kill any of them or didn't disrupt the fight in any way and im glad it got resumed normally.
Lastly once again id like to thank all the tournament staff for running a smooth and fun tournament.
Posted on 20 August 2017 - 02:30 AM
Thanks to everyone who participated!Last edited on 20 August 2017 - 07:13 AM by Msging
Ny_ wrote
A couple questions for discussion:
First of all I'd just like to thank everyone that dedicated their time into making the tournament work smoothly
How do you think we should seed the CTF tournament? We are still deciding on this, as we don't want to have any issues with good teams versing each other early, but we also don't want to overexert our influence on the tournament and risk bias by hand-seeding all the teams. Could you not just simply take the average ELO of each team and base it from there? Could take too long doing it manually but in the future a bot which evaluates each team could be an interesting alternative.
What kind of streamer do you prefer? A more well-known streamer who may be less familiar with the gamemode or individual players (e.g. Huawhi) or a lesser-known streamer with better insight on gamemodes and individual players (a mapmaker/player from the community)? We're unsure if the benefit of possible exposure will be worth it in CTF if the streamer doesn't clearly understand the map. I feel like to attract players to watch the tourney you do need a big name hosting it although personally I'd love to see an expert stream and explain the best strategies etc. You might be able to merge both into one stream?
Finally, do you feel that spectating matches is a valuable aspect of tournaments? Tournament spectating has led to numerous problems over the years, and we wonder if it's worth continuing to allow and encourage specs in matches.I don't really feel like it's that necessary if you have someone streaming it however I'm pretty certain this has already been suggested but having lets say 20 slots and then selling tickets to spec could be an interesting idea
First of all I'd just like to thank everyone that dedicated their time into making the tournament work smoothly
How do you think we should seed the CTF tournament? We are still deciding on this, as we don't want to have any issues with good teams versing each other early, but we also don't want to overexert our influence on the tournament and risk bias by hand-seeding all the teams. Could you not just simply take the average ELO of each team and base it from there? Could take too long doing it manually but in the future a bot which evaluates each team could be an interesting alternative.
What kind of streamer do you prefer? A more well-known streamer who may be less familiar with the gamemode or individual players (e.g. Huawhi) or a lesser-known streamer with better insight on gamemodes and individual players (a mapmaker/player from the community)? We're unsure if the benefit of possible exposure will be worth it in CTF if the streamer doesn't clearly understand the map. I feel like to attract players to watch the tourney you do need a big name hosting it although personally I'd love to see an expert stream and explain the best strategies etc. You might be able to merge both into one stream?
Finally, do you feel that spectating matches is a valuable aspect of tournaments? Tournament spectating has led to numerous problems over the years, and we wonder if it's worth continuing to allow and encourage specs in matches.I don't really feel like it's that necessary if you have someone streaming it however I'm pretty certain this has already been suggested but having lets say 20 slots and then selling tickets to spec could be an interesting idea
Posted on 20 August 2017 - 08:51 AM
xHeimskr wrote
I will upload the tourney if im not lazy to edit https://www.youtube.com/user/xHeimskr
Gonna upload yourself cheating again?
Posted on 20 August 2017 - 08:53 AM
iblueapple300 wrote
xHeimskr wrote...
Gonna upload yourself cheating again?
Posted on 20 August 2017 - 08:55 AM
xHeimskr wrote
iblueapple300 wrote...
good I’ll be reporting you with it as evidence as soon as it is uploaded
Last edited on 20 August 2017 - 09:10 AM by Kiivo
@Ny_ [edit: sorry for this essay, but I hope my opinion kinda helps]Attendance:
Attendance for Badlion tournaments has always been an issue it seems compared to other competitive servers.
I believe this is because the signup process is way too simple.
Other servers have systems where each member must confirm they are in that team as well as confirming that they can play.
Furthermore, each team is required to join a discord for further notification.
Badlion obviously doesn’t do this and the simplicity makes people just apply anyways, not caring about if they can attend or not.
I'm not sure if you guys currently do this but for people that have signed up with the acknowledgement yet have low attendance, these shouldn't be allowed in the tournament or must have some way of confirming 24 hours before that their team will attend.
Usually multiple day tournaments with group stages also help a lot to remove the no shows and allow the final bracket to have a much higher attendance
I believe the major factor that will affect the CTF Tournament attendance however is the Badlion Client.
Many people I know hadn't even downloaded the client within hours of the Arena tournament and due to the S14 bugs and crashing many people had said that they were simply not going to attend
I personally think the client is great and needed for this scale of a tournament, as we saw from the Arena tournament with PFW / keroni
I don’t believe there are any major bugs with the BLC on CTF currently from playing, yet my personal issue is that CTF is the only gamemode which harms my FPS significantly whilst using the client.
This may dissuade people from also playing if this is an issue for others
Either way if the client is going to be used, hopefully you guys can check that each participant has used the client before accepting their sign up to the tournament.
Seeding:
Ultimately for the seeding process I believe that you as the tournament staff should decide the seeding positions for each team.
I believe there are multiple factors that can be taken in to and that if this did cause an issue in the tournament it’s definitely something you guys can learn from for the future
I believe placing each team in groups of 16 would help you slowly decide the exactly the exactly seed each team is given
Active / Established Teams - There are many teams that can be seen daily looking for scrims on the discord and attending both official and unofficial events for CTF and other objective based gamemodes like CTW.
With the more control based map pool, I believe these more established teams who practice daily are far more likely to place higher than any other team, regardless of PvP skill
Past Tournaments - A difficulty in seeding for this tournament is the lack of previous tournaments to go off, however the CTF, CTW and Arena tournament could give some insight into the team’s ability and I believe the other unofficial tournament that have been run by Zicuri and Ginie could help decide the exact seeding for the top teams
Global - Using the same MMR seeding that you used for the Arena tournament is likely to help determining teams that are not established or very known for practising a lot or placing high in previous tournaments
Attendance - The likely hood of the team even showing up should be a factor for lower seeds, and obviously if these teams who have players with a low attendance history are allowed to play should be taken into account
Region - The server proxy of the team could also be used to help seed one team over another, however I doubt this is as much of an issue for the higher seeded teams
Spectating:
Another thing that annoys me about Badlion tournaments such as the CTW and CTF is the commentary and stream.
Although Archybot and Huahwi will generate more views to the stream, they don’t really commentate the games with much energy and often can miss things out.
I believe the server should be looking for 2 commentators who have experience in both commentating these objective gamemodes and can bring more of an “e-sports energy” to the tournament (Huahwi although getting more views would have no clue on how to commentate CTF). This would make spectating through stream more enjoyable and engaging
However, I also think the ability to spectate in game would be good but may result in cheating.
Possibly if teams were forced to go in discord like tournaments from other servers, this can make sure that there isn't somebody telling them what to do or telling them the opponents positions.
However, there are ways around this such as being in TeamSpeak at the same time.
Overall if there was a way to eliminate spec cheating, the ability to spectate in game would be much more enjoyable and also can help in scrim practice by being able to see how a game plays out from 3rd person and notice any flaws in how a team plays
xHeimskr:
I’ve fought Heimskr multiple times over the past months and faced him yesterday in the losers bracket, and there is no denying that his knockback is disgusting and very difficult to fight against
However, in my opinion the fact that he looks so blatant when you fight him however G-Cheat logs do not show him as cheating shows that he just has nutty knockback and that he is legit. I definitely think he has an unfair advantage in PvP, yet I don’t believe it is cheating but just his connection and KB
Although I sometimes wish he was banned so that he can’t play in the CTF tournament (xD) , I do not believe he is cheating. Im sure however the BAC will be the judge of that however next tourney
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
TL:DR -
Attendance:
Badlion signups are too easy
Dont allow previous no showers to play
BL Client may cause no shows
Seeding:
Tourney Staff should manually seed
Established / Active teams should be seeded highest over a high MMR team which doesn’t
Factors to think about: Active Teams, Past Tournaments, MMR Rating, Attendance, Region
Spectating:
Need experienced / enjoyable commentators
Ingame speccing would cause cheating
Discord could eliminate cheating
xHeimskr:
I think he is legit
Crazy KB + Horrible to fight
Never set off logs for ban
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