Last edited on 07 October 2017 - 03:54 PM by Jezii

Disclaimer: Kikzo allowed me to use his structure since it saved time and made everything more chronological.

Before I start with this thread I really want you guys to know that this is MY opinion. You may disagree with it and you may express your own opinions as well, therefore I'd ask you to accept it and not just tell me that I'm wrong.

First of all, most of you guys probably don't know me. I've been playing Badlion ever since Season 9. I was pretty bad back then with my 60-70fps laptop but I managed to get around 2280 Build UHC Elo, and joined Olympus(which became Supymlo,Genesis,Ezra etc…). I managed to get Emerald 1 last season. I've been playing Arena on and off for a while now and I recently converted to playing UHC's. Now, I've played UHC's before but I was never any good at it, I was an arena player, most arena players are good at the pvp stage but don't ever get there due to their lack of skill in mining etc (which isn't the case anymore in 6.0 due to the op caves). This season, so far I've managed to rack up 7 total wins(lost the stat fights :C), 4 stat wins. Which is pretty decent I guess for a player who streams all his games. https://go.twitch.tv/jezii_ (proof). So yeah, I have pretty good experience of the current UHC "situation".

X-ray

I'm a little bit concerned/confused about the new anti x-ray. I liked the idea very much, you couldn't do anything about the bug so you decided to change it so that x-rayers waste so much time mining fake ores that its better to not x-ray, paired with op caves so legit players can mine full diamond easily to compete with x-rayers. However, I personally haven't tested it out but I have been told by multiple people who are now banned(for other reasons) or stopped x-raying, that "It's still beneficial to x-ray." I mean, x-rayers still mine diamonds more efficiently than a legit player which is pretty much against the whole "no point in x-raying since you waste too much time" ideology. Furthermore, as a player who use to x-ray and has been banned, I have first-hand experience that people use x-ray to cave kill/not get jumped by other players. That is the most useful feature of the x-ray client. You can see other people in caves who won't see you, see exactly what they have, decide to fight or not. Or, you can keep checking around you to see if you're getting sneaked on. This still happens. I believe the new anti x-ray does nothing to prevent this?(This is what I've been told by players that are now banned). Also, x-raying in nether, oh boy… Just power mining all the quartz, very rare for someone to get reported for mining quartz(or specced). Very easy to make OP gear. Then there's the case of x-raying to nether fortress' which can lead to x-raying to nether warts which gives you speed(easy win if you play smart).

Solution: Unless there's a huge improvement in the anti x-ray, there is nothing we can do. The only solution for this is BAC.

Trucing/Teaming

This is quite a controversial problem, because to some limit not fighting your friend can be considered trucing/teaming but it can be considered just as someone you don't want to fight because he's too stacked or better at pvp etc. Hence why there's a lot of controversy to what's considered trucing/teaming since famous players usually don't fight each other until its final fight, is that considered trucing? For example, you usually won't see rex5826 fighting SuchSpeed in a FFA until final fight.
Firstly, snowballing is pretty difficult for a new player(players that aren't known/have no truces). There's always some "community"/group of friends that will snowball together who give each other kills and won't go for each other. This makes it so easy for these players to rake in kills and get good gear as they know they won't get cleaned(their friends are protecting) or killed (since they are stacked).
Secondly, final fights/100x100 fights. These fights usually happen in close distance to other players, the chance of getting cleaned are very high unless you have truces/teams. It's very popular to have a friend "protecting" you while you fight another player/team. Is this not technically teaming? So you either kill him and get protected or if you die, you're friend cleans the guy you die too,it's a lose lose situation for the player who is playing fairly. This is why UHC's are usually won by the same people, yes they're usually to some degree, good at pvp/uhc knowledge but its mainly because of truces/teaming. It's literally impossible for any "outsider", so any players that aren't in a uhc community to get a win. If you want, I can private msg someone about all the different communities and who are the main players in each, perhaps using this list you could encourage players from the same "community" to fight each other? I saw this happen only once out of all the UHC's I've played which was by Reesb, he got katoo and some other guy from the same community to fight. But they didn't listen to the host and decided to fight the other 2 players(one being me) , my fault for getting killed but yeah, this brings me onto my next point.

Solution: You make a database of who is in what community, the players who tend to win UHC's, see who they are teaming with. A few experienced players and myself can help you with that. Also pretty sure Reesb has a good idea of who truces with who. Using this information, it can help staff watch those players, see if their trucing and make them fight each other in final 4 etc.

Poor Staff

It's easy for a player to bash a staff for being bad etc and think they'll do a better job, trust me I use to be like that when I was younger. Hell yeah, it’s a difficult job to do well but there are lots of factors that staff can improve on. I'm not pointing out any staff out for being bad, because that's not what this post is about, but if I do use you as an example, please don't be offended because you've probably changed by now.

Hosts/Mods tend to turn a blind eye to teams/truces. I don’t know exactly why, I presume because it's quite hard to get "explicit evidence". This is a huge issue in UHC's. The truth is, it requires too much evidence to ban a player. For example, (this is just an example, _Minepat and I are cool now but at the time I was pretty angry) I was in a to3 UHC, one other team and a to2. They were both from the same community and teamed up as a 5 on us.


from (1:09 onwards). It was pretty obvious but yeah, the host just turned a blind eye. I also something similar 2 days ago with Louiie letting "perf3ktness" 3v2 the Champions Game winner, Macropolooooo(I don't have video evidence but you can ask himself) or Louiie about it, that's assuming he will be honest. The problem with staff is that, it requires too much evidence and a lot of these staff members have little uhc experience, hence their uhc knowledge is pretty weak. This means they can't make a good judgment without explicit evidence. You have hosts such as Reesb who has played uhcs , I don't know how well but he plays, he knows what happens, and then you have hosts such as _Minepat who don't really play uhcs so they don't know understand the game as well. I think recruiting staff with experience that genuinely want to improve the game is needed. For example, Louiie is a player with uhc experience however he is always bias towards players he can truce/team with in UHC's, you won't see him make perf3ktness or Mqyland fight in final 3 in a FFA(I personally don't think he is a staff who genuinely wants to improve the uhc). This is something the BAC can't change. This has to be you. Due to this lack of experience/uhc knowledge, the staffing system is too weak to keep up with cheaters. It's too easy to cheat. I saw this video and it summed up this point.


. Yes you're right, you don't actually see the player hacking however, using a logical chain of reasoning, it is clear that he is hacking. Okay this is a bit off topic but I learnt it ages ago in Religious Studies so might as well use it, theists (god believers) can't prove that God exists by anything physical however they can use a chain of reasoning such as the world is too perfect for human life that it's impossible to not have a superior being. The distance between the Sun and Earth, pressure levels etc. Anyway, back to Minecraft. Yes, I'm suggesting that you should ban players if there's a logical reasoning followed through. Yes, there may be a false ban once in a blue moon, just as there is currently IF the UHC Hosts are experienced players. The only reason that you can't ban players without explicit evidence is because the current staff(majority) cannot make a logical chain of reasoning due to their lack of experience playing UHC's. This point, maybe my whole post sounds harsh and I do apologise if I've touched the wrong nerve.

Solution: Well, I've said it a few times but it's to recruit staff that have a lot more uhc experience who can make sound judgement. Then allow bans based on judgements by staff rather than just explicit evidence. If the staff are experienced uhc players, there won't be many false bans. Furthermore, favour players who play on their main. Hackers/Ip banned players play on alts which usually means they have less time played etc. Yes, you could say that good players would want to play on alts so they don't get targetted but uh hello? Lion+? Disguise feature? Also, that way, they are less likely to cheat due to the fact they'd be losing a lion+ rank. When I say favour, I mean, try to watch those players with lower time played, who usually team with people playing on their main who are trying to get the easy win by teaming with a cheater. They can rack up wins so easily by doing this. Once again, I can name and shame but that's not significant right now.

Hacking

I'll keep this one short because it's something that already has a solution. Firstly, there's clients which can use 0.25 extra reach which is basically undetectable. However, this can make a significant difference in a fight. Those first this add up.
Secondly, Huzuni Spectating. This is when a player logs into Badlion with Huzuni(an infamous hack client) and specs for a friend while having the ability to see what other players have. They can tell their friend (who is in the game), someone's healing, armour, sword etc. The worst part is that, staff cannot do anything about this, it's completely undetectable. Due to how it's impossible to get banned for this, a lot of well known players use it. For example, (this is an ultra uhc but I want to show you that good players use it too, I'm team badlion since day 1)

. If you listen carefully at 3:24, you can hear him asking "oh peanstrafe is there, what pieces does he have?" Then PrestigeNinja(a well-known player) cuts the audio because it was a Huzuni spec telling him what he had.

Solution: BAC.

Conclusion

So, these are my views on the current problems in UHC's (specifically EU, I think NA is a lot calmer), I'll respond to any comments that I redeem response worthy and I'd love it, if some seniors/owners could read this. Thanks for reading. Took me about 3-4 days to put this together. Hope you found this useful/interesting.

Posted on 07 October 2017 - 07:41 AM

my mane Jezii calling staff broke boys

Posted on 07 October 2017 - 07:43 AM

uno

Posted on 07 October 2017 - 03:54 PM

this got no attention :<

Posted on 08 October 2017 - 03:20 AM

all these are good points especially the one about people x-raying because i still get rayed to when i cave sometimes it's highly unlucky :(

Posted on 08 October 2017 - 04:01 AM

Yeah, that's the best feature of x-ray by far. You can see what they have,exactly where they are, what they doing, if someone's digging to you etc.

Posted on 08 October 2017 - 08:16 AM

Bumb

Posted on 08 October 2017 - 05:23 PM

I read all of . Btw he wasnt huzuni speccing….. that guy is legit. Prestige's family was loud so he mutes the audio….

Posted on 08 October 2017 - 07:40 PM

Why didnt this get more attention? Most of it is pretty accurate. Especially the trucing part. If your not known, you cant snowball. The known players never clean each other and leave the randys for each other. Its just annoying.

Posted on 08 October 2017 - 09:03 PM

The reason this isn't getting attention is that this was posted in the UHC sub-forum. You should've posted this in the general discussion sub-forum

Posted on 09 October 2017 - 07:11 AM

Insignificant comment.

Posted on 09 October 2017 - 07:12 AM

Thanks. I wish it got more attention… I might repost in general discussion…

Posted on 09 October 2017 - 07:12 AM

Should I copy and paste it there

Last edited on 09 October 2017 - 10:03 PM by Arrowless

Ask a staff member to lock/snipe this thread and then post it on general discussion

Posted on 10 October 2017 - 01:36 AM

Moved to GDSC

Posted on 10 October 2017 - 03:23 AM

Thank you

Posted on 10 October 2017 - 06:18 AM

I partly agree to some of the points you brought up. I know that some staff members including myself don't have much experience playing UHC. I also do know that some staff members have trouble with for example teaming, but we do try our best. 80% of the time that you feel like we are ignoring you or not answering you we are 1) spectating someone else or 2) spectating the player you told us to spectate.
Sometimes we don't message you back saying "Hey, I'm spectating" which we probably should. But that does not give you the right to fire up calling us everything from shit staff to straight up telling us to kill ourself (sorry for my language). We spend hours hosting games for people and what do we get in return? People telling us to kill ourself. I believe we all can understand that's really demotivating.

And you mentioned that Minepat ignored you with your evidence, as an example of course. But 90% of the time people don't have evidence.
And believe it or not, people are really good at hiding the fact that they are teaming. It's really hard getting sufficient evidence of people teaming and when we do feel like it's sufficient, we usually try to get a second opinion from a senior, and sometimes it's enough and sometimes it's not.
And sometimes staff members simply are spectating someone else, and when you continuously spam us when we are spectating you don't help yourself at all, you just trigger us up and you might even end up getting muted.
One thing people have to understand is that you are not the only one in the game. We are trying to spectate everyone telling us to spec etc, but it's impossible so spectate 20 people at the same time. And of course we will sometimes ignore you/not answer your message cause we simply didn't see it.

And Saimo actually wrote something really good about the "Not enough evidence" video: "What you guys don't realize is that "not enough evidence" doesn't mean "he is not cheating", it means that they need evidence that would actually hold if the guy appeals and staff is as frustrated as you are when someone is cheating and they can't get enough evidence."
The guy was cheating (since the user got GCheated) but that evidence wouldn't hold in an appeal. As just like Saimo mentioned in his tweet, not enough evidence doesn't mean he is not cheating, it means that we need evidence where we see him ACTUALLY flying or speeding, which we couldn't in that video/clip.



If more "experienced UHC players" would apply I'm sure that they would get accepted. But since there isn't any "experienced UHC player" writing a proper application, we simply can't hire them.

If you have any questions, make sure to PM me!

Last edited on 10 October 2017 - 07:22 AM by PolkacatLP

+1 one for hacks, poor staff and teaming

Neural with xray

Posted on 10 October 2017 - 09:18 AM

Interesting response. I'll slowly edit this reply in response to your comment cos I need to get tabbing out to read.

Posted on 10 October 2017 - 09:23 AM

We can’t just ban form evidence that might be hacking honestly if you became staff you’d realise the last thing you want is false bans

We don’t want to ban innocent players. We don’t ban until we’re 100% sure