Posted on 22 July 2015 - 03:53 AM

I have been watching people like Smqcked and Lennox and Nestor etc. and I have been really getting sick of people that win a lot cross-teaming with eachother.

These are the reasons why I think Crossteaming shoulnt be allowed on badlion:

•Like in reddit, say its a to2 game and one of the risks of hunting early is your teammate dieing or you dieing. In badlion that isnt a risk because you can just crossteam with other people and that makes it really unfair to people who BTC (or cave the whole game) because they never took the risk and still the people who hunted early have an advantage over them

•Another reason why I think crossteaming shouldnt be allowed on badlion is because, you team with your competition, say there are 2 huge snowballers in a game and they are solos and they decide to team. Well that made the game really unfait to other people because now say someone was hoping to cleanup they cant anymore, or if theyre is 3 people left in a game and 2 are full diamond snowballers and they are all solos and the 1 other guy is and unechanted iron guy. The 2 diamond snowballers can just crossteam and win the game and say the iron guy was planning to clean up his plan was ruined because of the rule.

•another reason why crossteaming shouldnt be allowed is because youre pretty much teaming with your competition, say in a to2 your fighting a full diamond team and you kill guy and the other team kills one of you teammates. People always just team with the other guy and that is just not right in my opinion. It doesnt look right or sound right. Just plain stupid. And too OP, say its a to2 and there are 2 teams left and you kill one player of the other team and the other team kills your teammate, WELL LETS JUST CROSSTEAM WITH THE OTHER TEAM AND WIN THE GAME TOGETHER! That fact that you can do that is really stupid in my opinion and not right and very anti-climantic.

•Say Smqcked is with xhockey and he is fighting xNestorio and upriserryker and WOAH SMQCKED KILLS XNESTORIO and then WOAH UPRISERRYKER KILLS SMQCKED, WHO IS GOING TO WIN THE FIGHT oh wait xhocket and upriserryker are crossteaming now what a lame ending and now they are the most op team in the gamE…. Then upriserryker and xhockey is fighting Lennox and Prohulk in the final fight, and WOAH UPRISERRYKER KILLS LENNOX and then WOAH PROHULK KILLS XHOCKEY WHO WILL WIN oh wait upriserryker and Prohulk are crossteaming now and that means they won the game…

•The final reason why crossteaming shouldnt be allowed on badlion is because say in a to2 ngal and itsdenis are full dia snowballing
And ngal says "OH I DONT WANNA RUN INTO DENIS HE IS THE MOST OP PERSON IN THE GAME AND IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN POTENTIALY KILL ME"
And denis is thinking "IH I DONT WANNA RUN INTO NGAL HE IS THE MOST OP PERSON IN THE GAME AND IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN POTENTIALLY KILL ME"
Then they both think "IH LETS JUST CROSSTEAM AND MURDER EVERYONE AND WIN THE GAME BECAUSE THAT IS REALLY FAIR TO EVERYONE ELSE"

thanks for reading this was a lot to read and please understand that crossteaming is really dumb in my opinion because you are teaming with your competition

Thanks for reading ~xFrozti
@Archybot @MasterGberry # @sluttycow @Pikaoku

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 05:26 AM

Holy shit someone with a valid argument that doesn't rely on fallacies and irrelevancies to make your point. I'll give you props where they're due, and I'll give you the same amount of time as you gave this.



Let me just make this clear, we aren't reddit. We really avoid their model of business, and have even made up our own unique brand of UHC hosting. Now, there is still an involved risk with early fighting. There are two successful strategies in Badlion for those who have never noticed. You can either snowball or border camp. Either one, with the right skill, will lead you to being in the final battle. Now your whole point is that for those who take risks they deserve the consequence for trying to get things early. Now here is something I can make a counter argument. Cross teaming involves three things. Gear, status, and location. Gear - do they have something that you need/would boost the team. Status - Are they xxbkrandyxx or are they well known for being good at pvp. Location - Posneg, etc. No point on waiting for ten minutes at zero, zero when you're solo. Now here is the hypothetical situation I can give you. In a to2 game you and your teammate finish caving post enchants and are at 0,0 by the thirty minute mark. You see a team of players who didn't have the same luck but still want to attempt to snowball. You go and pick one of them off and the other runs off. Is it fair to completely remove the other player on the basis that they were just less lucky? Also expanding on this, he is already currently hurting and has no chance of winning alone. Our goal is to make our servers the most competitive as they can be for the majority of our matches. Badlion isn't the go-to gimmick cool UHC server, but rather the extremely challenging and highly rewarding when you win server. Cross teaming raises this.



I haven't seen many examples in which two separated players snowball and then join forces after. I mean if you are basing your argument in fairness, a 2v2 is far more fair then a 2v1. I understand your argument where if your teammate dies you deserve to be at a disadvantage. But ultimately in a team game you can't win if you are solo. The quantity of skill to successfully collaborate with another player who you may not be all that familiar with. Plus there is a whole other trust issue. The idea of cleanup is something that doesn't take skill. Just because you showed up at the right time doesn't necessarily entice you to earn an advantage in the game. Now, let me give a real life anecdote. I am probably the biggest survivor fan in the minecraft community. Seen every season twice, and have applied to the show once so far, and will apply again on my 19th birthday. There is the idea of scrambling once you lose your "alliance members." This is where you are most fragile and at risk. Sure, there are the random clutches like Ozzy or Mike, but ultimately once you get ousted you're pretty much fucked. In your example there are inevitable exceptions. A team of unenchanted iron guys regardless if its a 1v4 (as in I've done it) will generally lose to full diamond people.



This is an edge case that in my over 300~ games of moderating/hosting on badlion I am yet to see a real example of. In a 1v1 situation people won't team if it was previously 2v2. They will finish off the job regardless of the case. Now let me add onto your hypothetical on a big advantage to cross teaming. Lets say Upriserryker and xhockey are both extremely low at this point. Do they deserve to die to Lennox and ProHulk from a cleanup, or do they deserve a fighting chanse (look I made a joke).



Another edgecase that I haven't seen happen

==============================================
Now, I am someone who is extremely open minded. Ask my staff team or the owners. I am probably one of the best people at looking at the pros and cons of an argument and evaluating its strengths and limitations (look I made an IB reference). It is important to consider the merits of both sides (look another IB reference) to make a justified true belief.

So, your arguments considered :

Negatives of cross teaming in a simplified form:

1. Once you die you should be at a disadvantage. The most deserving player (ohh but what constitutes deserving?) who has successfully avoided his teammate dying should be placed in a disadvantage.
2. Teaming with the competition. When you join a Badlion UHC game you are supposedly joining the highest skill level that current UHC servers have to offer (at least that is one of my mission goals for badlion). With this, the player who has successfully managed to alongside his teammate not die until the end thus should get a fair reward.
3. Puts lesser known players in a disadvantage. This is a point you didn't really bring up but I still think it is something that is needed to be addressed. I mean I already hate people who when forming teams say "1900> elo team?" or something along those lines. Cross teaming makes it so that people who are well known have a higher chance of refinding a teammate, and thus a higher chance of winning

Positives of cross teaming in a simplified form:

1. Keeps the server competitive. I player shouldn't really be removed from the competition due to the fact that their teammate died to some badluck.
2. BTCing would be raised. If you are in a cave all game you are now at a higher chance of winning then other players who went out pvping. Why? Because you have all the gear from caving with the added fact that there was no risk of losing your teammate.
3. Continued problem with dealing out punishments. There will be time and time again where (for example) a final four will be a to2 and two solos. Do we punish the remaining solo players for focusing the team? From an adminstratiive point of view the quantity of leeway with the rule would be really vague and that isn't really something I strive to do.
4. Here is my main selling point. From a moderator point of view it will be extremely difficult to consistently catch these players who do this. Let me pan you a picture (I'll even use familiar names for the sake of not confusing it). Smqcked lost his teammate early. xHockey lost his teammate early. They decide to cross team but keep a distance to make moderators not suspect. This thus allows them to also cover more ground and find more teams. They find a team of xxxbkrandy and yyybkrandy. They go, slice and dice them both up, and then before the time it takes for xxxbkrandy to /team list Smqcked and xhockey, report it to the host, and force the host to check it out, smqcked now is capable of pretending to run away. Also expanding on this, people could potentially abuse it where they'd get respawned and thus manipulate an aspect of the game.
5. One more thing that is noteworthy cross teaming promotes expansion of the community. I can say this from experience. People like to bash Badlion for our toxic community, but we aren't nearly as exclusive as other communities. I play UHCs 90% of the time on an alt. I have had games where my alt has crossed teamed with major players due to me being decent at the game. Players can meet new players, join new communities, and create new friendships through cross teaming
6. This last point is something which is a new concept that I grew liking towards. Badlion UHC has now created itself to be a brand name in the UHC community. When you play badlion UHC you are expecting a game where you get a 10 minute heal, where you get 10 food, where you get 250> players, where you get good hosts, and where there is cross teaming.

Now, let me publically say. I hate cross teaming. It's unfair and dumb, but from evaluation of pros and cons I haven't found a strong enough counter argument to persuade me into allowing it.

Holy shit 85% of what I said is redundant, only read the bottom.

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 05:27 AM

@FroztiSnowman

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 06:16 AM

Okay you proved me wrong, I'm sorry for useing up your time. I've been playing Badlion UHC for about a year now and I'm just sick and tired of getting killed by Full Diamond guys that were never on the same team but just cross-teamed.

But another suggestion is maybe have SOME games where cross-teaming isn't allowed?

Thanks for your amazing effort in being a mod @sluttycow i know a lot of mods who would just ignore this post because they dont give effort to make a point.

By the way examples of the xhockey/ryker thing

•xNestorio & MrMusicMinecraft 6:40-7:51 (How do you think the rest of the players felt?)
https://youtu.be/7AJLi_G5vNM

•xhockey & ProHulk 1:06-1:18
https://youtu.be/wi5TFrKVD0A

Just 2 from the tons I remember (Happens a lot on streams)

~xFrozti

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 06:37 AM

However I am willing to compromise. I can start testing this in my games and then proceed to expand it globally. No forming new cross teams in 100x100 and will lead to a one day ban.

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 08:14 AM

How will you keep track of that tho slutty? That seems nearly impossible to do

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 09:03 AM

Once the border is 100x100, hosts/UHC mods will check for people cross teaming. There shouldn't be more than 30 players in a 100x100 in any game, although I haven't spectated many UHC games so I may be incorrect on that.

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 03:04 PM

Thanks Slutty :)

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 04:27 PM

So is that within 100x100 at ALL times or just when it shrinks?

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 05:00 PM

+1

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 08:43 PM

According to what SluttyCow said, I think he meant that once the border size becomes 100x100, cross teaming will be disallowed. So if you cross team before the shrink you're fine.

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 09:37 PM

I like cross teaming as it gives badlion a different side to other uhc servers. Also what about in big team games though? Because this would disadvantage solo players after there teams die, for example solos in a team of 4 game woud stand no chance? @sluttycow

Posted on 22 July 2015 - 09:49 PM

That prevents the same people from snowballing/winning in my opinion. And makes people play the game a different way

Posted on 23 July 2015 - 10:47 AM

Plays reddit game*
Gets a team.
Unlucky creeper..
Team mate dies. 40 mins in.
No chance of kills or a win
Game ruined.
40 minutes of my live wasted.

Posted on 23 July 2015 - 10:53 AM

@bqrney

Whhhhyyyyy for the love of god would you go solo?????????????????.
In a team game and complain cause you have to 4 v 1. Its you own choise to go solo ffa

Posted on 24 July 2015 - 11:17 AM

I meant if your team dies…

Posted on 24 July 2015 - 08:48 PM

As jereon said, you can waste so much time if your teammate falls in lava and that'øs bullshit sorry to say, on other servers like hypixel ( i havent tried that many other ) you can win alone but in badlion almost ervyone is really skilled and has good team work so it's impossible to kill a 2 team alone. - 1 from me

Posted on 24 July 2015 - 09:08 PM

What you could do is for team games have what reddit does and has the colors for teams and you guys can host TrueLove games in which crossteaming is allowed

Posted on 26 July 2015 - 02:10 AM

Eh, I like Slutty's way, and maybe an easy way for mods to keep track of the teams is marking people in colour with a command? .-.

But the only disadvantage to cross-teaming really is how they both can't win.

Posted on 26 July 2015 - 04:17 AM

lol