Posted on 11 December 2015 - 08:08 AM
SmellyPenguin wrote
freekkiller wrote...
Posted on 11 December 2015 - 09:18 AM
DaBakerMC wrote
SmellyPenguin wrote...
Nah
Last edited on 13 July 2017 - 03:48 AM by preamblee
.Posted on 11 December 2015 - 11:57 AM
Scope_Lost_Again wrote
I much prefer no speed, solely because it requires you to actually be able to aim as well. Dodging is more difficult so you would think aiming is actually easier, and it is, but that goes both ways. It's also a lot easier to integrate actual strafing into no-speed as well (which in turn brings back prediction based shooting), instead of solely being based on dodging. I'm not saying archer should turn in a sweat strafe ladder, and it wouldn't because that's still an inferior method of playing, but being able to have multiple ways of playing is never a bad thing. As it is now you either go for a 10 minute dodging battle, or you get up close and go for the rng bowspam fight.
Maybe I'm just bored of how archer ladder works though, because whenever I get against someone else that's high elo I just get bored after 30 seconds of dodging and stop trying until they inevitably win
I'd agree with this to a point, but this really only applies at extremely long ranges. Speed 2 at mid and short range makes prediction in both shot and strafe more important, and that blows the skill cap through the roof of what it would be without speed.
Anyway, there are other short-range bow based ladders. Archer is the only one that really encourages learning how to play long distance, and that's a good thing.
Last edited on 13 July 2017 - 03:48 AM by preamblee
.Posted on 11 December 2015 - 01:08 PM
Scope_Lost_Again wrote
Hivlik wrote...
fair point, but I don't think a no speed archer ladder without enderpearls would ever be a short range ladder unless the maps forced it. It's too hard to get close to a good player without speed 2 on wide open maps. That being said I wouldn't say it is crazy to have a no speed and speed 2 archer ladder, it's a moderately popular ladder as far as I can tell. Otherwise I think you're right, most good players want it to remain speed, so there's no reason to not keep it that way; I'll just play kohi archer instead even though everyone there is terrible.
I used to think that rushing in for short range without pearls would be ridiculously hard, but in fact, it's exactly the opposite. Anybody decently talented at archer ladder can run in quickly and without being hit, and if there are no pearls, there's no way for the other guy to get away. Even without speed 2, it's no challenge to force short range. I have played kohi archer, and almost never have I really had a long range fight.
Last edited on 13 July 2017 - 03:48 AM by preamblee
.Posted on 11 December 2015 - 02:07 PM
Scope_Lost_Again wrote
I much prefer no speed, solely because it requires you to actually be able to aim as well. Dodging is more difficult so you would think aiming is actually easier, and it is, but that goes both ways. It's also a lot easier to integrate actual strafing into no-speed as well (which in turn brings back prediction based shooting), instead of solely being based on dodging. I'm not saying archer should turn in a sweat strafe ladder, and it wouldn't because that's still an inferior method of playing, but being able to have multiple ways of playing is never a bad thing. As it is now you either go for a 10 minute dodging battle, or you get up close and go for the rng bowspam fight.
Maybe I'm just bored of how archer ladder works though, because whenever I get against someone else that's high elo I just get bored after 30 seconds of dodging and stop trying until they inevitably win
I think you bring up a fair point, but I personally don't think it's as bad as you describe. You can fight easily mid-distance while avoiding a total dodge fight, and strafing patterns still exist in this range. In any case, I think this whole dodging thing is just advancement of the ladder. In my eyes, there's nothing wrong with that and forcibly trying to kill it off isn't the right answer.
>Dodging is more difficult so you would think aiming is actually easier, and it is, but that goes both ways.
Can you elaborate on this? I think aiming is far easier because there's a lot less space for a guy to move in, and it's why these fights seem a bit more boring. It's too easy to aim at people, and it's too easy to get hit. I'm sure this is due to my mediocre strafing, but I find myself in a lot of hit-for-hit exchanges, and I'd prefer being in a dodge fights with occasional hits than these, where fights get too unnecessarily close with a lot of people.
I'm aware this is unrelated to the direct argument, but I think re-popularizing dodging is a good thing. This is, after all, how archer ladder worked back when it was originally made: you got shot and you died. There was a lot of dodging in long-range fights back then, and strafing was pretty uncommon unless you got into a very close range fight.
Last edited on 13 July 2017 - 03:48 AM by preamblee
.Posted on 11 December 2015 - 04:44 PM
In my opinion, Archer shouldn't have enderpearls. It honestly makes the new damage-based-on-distance thing useless: people would just enderpearl to you and start bowspamming -> stupid fights and no skill involved + not fun at all.I want it to be like last season. I like the speed 1, it doesn't really bother me.
Not sure about the Punch I, I liked Punch II,it might not be that big of a change, so I'd give it a try.
I just want you to remember that sometimes we don't have to make the perfect kit for a certain pvp tool (Sword, bow …"and rod" -.-). We can just play and get used to what we have :)
I think we will find it fun eitherway (I still think what we have now (s10) is a bit better!)
Posted on 12 December 2015 - 01:54 AM
i'm glad this is a discussion that was had