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Elo vs MMR
Can someone please explain to me the difference between Elo and MMR? It seems to me that MMR is basically Elo with ranks. For example, I beat someone and get ranked up to Gold IV. Then the next game I play, I lose and get deranked back to Gold V. It looks as if there is a certain Elo rating I need to achieve in order to rank or derank. However, based on many threads I read, Elo cannot be converted into MMR, vice versa, and they're two separate rating systems. I understand the concept of Elo, how if someone with higher rating defeats someone with lower rating doesn't get that much rating, however if the lower person wins, the lower rated person get more rating. In MMR, as far as I can see that concept is still there, but there should be more behind that concept if both ratings cannot be compared with another.
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Elo is a number
MMR is a rank
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Elo
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Emendings wrote

Elo is a number
MMR is a rank

This is false. Both have numbers attached, but MMR in its current form is hidden while elo never was.

To answer the original question of elo vs MMR:

Elo is a system where rating is traded evenly between players (one player gains as much as another loses) that primarily selects for consistency. Attached to elo is a "flexibility constant" (not techincal terminology but the word I'm using for it) which was 32, back in earlier seasons. What that 32 represents is how much elo you can win or lose in a certain match. In a broader sense, it allows you to evaluate skill - if you're fighting someone who you would gain 31 elo for beating and drop 1 elo for losing, in theory if you fought 32 times, you would win once and lose 31 times. This provides the basis for elo - in order to continue to progress at high levels, you need to win incredibly consistently or else you're penalized heavily. That makes it extremely unforgiving, especially against hackers and issues like lag.

MMR is a far more complex rating system that required a revamp of the queueing system to function. MMR selects for skill rather than consistency, and players no longer "trade" elo. People can gain more or less elo than the other player lost. This flexibility allows the system to account for occasional losses and mainly focuses on placing someone in an area where they'll win exactly 50% of their matches against equally ranked opponents.
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Unwise wrote

Emendings wrote...


This is false. Both have numbers attached, but MMR in its current form is hidden while elo never was.

To answer the original question of elo vs MMR:

Elo is a system where rating is traded evenly between players (one player gains as much as another loses) that primarily selects for consistency. Attached to elo is a "flexibility constant" (not techincal terminology but the word I'm using for it) which was 32, back in earlier seasons. What that 32 represents is how much elo you can win or lose in a certain match. In a broader sense, it allows you to evaluate skill - if you're fighting someone who you would gain 31 elo for beating and drop 1 elo for losing, in theory if you fought 32 times, you would win once and lose 31 times. This provides the basis for elo - in order to continue to progress at high levels, you need to win incredibly consistently or else you're penalized heavily. That makes it extremely unforgiving, especially against hackers and issues like lag.

MMR is a far more complex rating system that required a revamp of the queueing system to function. MMR selects for skill rather than consistency, and players no longer "trade" elo. People can gain more or less elo than the other player lost. This flexibility allows the system to account for occasional losses and mainly focuses on placing someone in an area where they'll win exactly 50% of their matches against equally ranked opponents.
And to touch up on this, take a look at me for example. Build is probably one of the most annoying ladders I've played (yet so addicting fk) because of the amount of bow spammers and shit in there. Aside from that, I mostly do either win or lose 50-70% of my matches. I go on losing streaks then come back, etc. etc. and now I see that I belong anywhere from Silver I to Gold IV, though I can get higher if I was determined. NoDebuff, I am staying in the Emerald ranks because currently as you can see from this lovely photo, I'm the first Emerald V meaning I have to win either 1 or 2 matches in order to rank to Emerald IV.


Whereas with ELO, last season I was a 1900 no debuff, but seasons before that I was a 2200. ELO was broken and stupid to use in terms of a game like this. Take a look at League, they have ranks. Take a look at even fucking Mineplex "Competitive ELO." I don't know why they said ELO, but who cares. Even their ranking system works similarly to ours, LoL, CS:GO etc. as you start off as a "Coal" and gradually work your way up. ELO is gone, but the players who still don't give a shit and are half-minded will play on a server like PvP Lounge or something for ELO - because sometimes old habits don't die.
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You have no idea what I would do for ELO to come back
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SletursiWantsElo wrote

You have no idea what I would do for ELO to come back


You have no idea of how much I bet that you will stop complaining in s14 when there will be a visible number and you will be able to see how much you need to rankup :p
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The reason why the current MMR system feels like it's just elo is because it's not perfected. It needs some things fixed, such as:
-Hiding MMR gained/lost, and instead showing a "bar" somewhere to show how much you need to gain/lose to change your rank.
-Preventing division hopping as you win/lose.
-Adding Bo3 between divisions and adding Bo5 between ranks.
Gberry already said that it needs more work.
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Saimo wrote

SletursiWantsElo wrote...



You have no idea of how much I bet that you will stop complaining in s14 when there will be a visible number and you will be able to see how much you need to rankup :p


Still not the same
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SletursiWantsElo wrote

Saimo wrote...



Still not the same

You haven't even tried it out yet, stop dissing something before you even know what it is
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MagRogue wrote

The reason why the current MMR system feels like it's just elo is because it's not perfected. It needs some things fixed, such as:
-Hiding MMR gained/lost, and instead showing a "bar" somewhere to show how much you need to gain/lose to change your rank.
-Preventing division hopping as you win/lose.
-Adding Bo3 between divisions and adding Bo5 between ranks.
Gberry already said that it needs more work.

Well, they'll actually be going in the opposite direction and showing a number.

SletursiWantsElo wrote

Saimo wrote...



Still not the same

????
Elo is inferior to MMR in how it functions - the main issue for most people is the lack of a visible number and issues with the queue system.
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Yea wrote

Unwise wrote...



Whereas with ELO, last season I was a 1900 no debuff, but seasons before that I was a 2200.
hey brother I remember when u had the most pot elo o rite u got banned haha now it minExDxD
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Armoda wrote

Yea wrote...

hey brother I remember when u had the most pot elo o rite u got banned haha now it minExDxD
cool
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Here's a great video by ya boy Hivlik on the subject.


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Unwise wrote

Emendings wrote...


This is false. Both have numbers attached, but MMR in its current form is hidden while elo never was.

To answer the original question of elo vs MMR:

Elo is a system where rating is traded evenly between players (one player gains as much as another loses) that primarily selects for consistency. Attached to elo is a "flexibility constant" (not techincal terminology but the word I'm using for it) which was 32, back in earlier seasons. What that 32 represents is how much elo you can win or lose in a certain match. In a broader sense, it allows you to evaluate skill - if you're fighting someone who you would gain 31 elo for beating and drop 1 elo for losing, in theory if you fought 32 times, you would win once and lose 31 times. This provides the basis for elo - in order to continue to progress at high levels, you need to win incredibly consistently or else you're penalized heavily. That makes it extremely unforgiving, especially against hackers and issues like lag.

MMR is a far more complex rating system that required a revamp of the queueing system to function. MMR selects for skill rather than consistency, and players no longer "trade" elo. People can gain more or less elo than the other player lost. This flexibility allows the system to account for occasional losses and mainly focuses on placing someone in an area where they'll win exactly 50% of their matches against equally ranked opponents.

I know the problem. It's because elo is useless. But Badlioners need to know their number/rank or they will lose their identity. All the 2k elo posts and what elo are you aiming next season are gone. Gone.








/s
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15ober wrote

Unwise wrote...


I know the problem. It's because elo is useless. But Badlioners need to know their number/rank or they will lose their identity. All the 2k elo posts and what elo are you aiming next season are gone. Gone.








/s

And they do know their rank….
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nookaxe wrote

Here's a great video by ya boy Hivlik on the subject.


lol the thumbnail
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Yea wrote

Unwise wrote...

And to touch up on this, take a look at me for example. Build is probably one of the most annoying ladders I've played (yet so addicting fk) because of the amount of bow spammers and shit in there. Aside from that, I mostly do either win or lose 50-70% of my matches. I go on losing streaks then come back, etc. etc. and now I see that I belong anywhere from Silver I to Gold IV, though I can get higher if I was determined. NoDebuff, I am staying in the Emerald ranks because currently as you can see from this lovely photo, I'm the first Emerald V meaning I have to win either 1 or 2 matches in order to rank to Emerald IV.


Whereas with ELO, last season I was a 1900 no debuff, but seasons before that I was a 2200. ELO was broken and stupid to use in terms of a game like this. Take a look at League, they have ranks. Take a look at even fucking Mineplex "Competitive ELO." I don't know why they said ELO, but who cares. Even their ranking system works similarly to ours, LoL, CS:GO etc. as you start off as a "Coal" and gradually work your way up. ELO is gone, but the players who still don't give a shit and are half-minded will play on a server like PvP Lounge or something for ELO - because sometimes old habits don't die.
 0
PM Link