Sign up Login
Store
Players Online: 3.3k
Info
Rules Staff Discord
Support Suggestions Forums Client
Forums Minecraft Arena PvP Questions regarding jitter-clicking.
Subscribe
Questions regarding jitter-clicking.

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 04:13 AM

Hello. I was hoping someone could help me better understand how exactly jitter-clicking effects a fight, mechanically. I've heard everything ranging from it being love & life to it not making nearly any difference. My personal experience is that it's obnoxious, but I can't tell for sure how much is CPS, how much is my meh computer/internet, and how much is just me sucking at melee.

I'm kinda biased here myself. I'm pretty sure jitter-clicking would not be advisable for me - I have a fair bit of joint inflammation, and residual effects from minor to moderate injuries in my main hand. This isn't generally a major problem nor effect me much, but I've tried to learn, and have managed to injure myself a couple times now. Butterfly clicking is apparently bannable, so learning that is off the table. The fastest I ever got with regular clicking was a a split tenth of a second at 9 CPS before dropping back to 6.8 or so.

Basically, I'm curious how much of a disadvantage I have with 6-7 CPS? I'm aware that aim is more important than click speed, but honestly, one way or another, there's always someone with both, and that's what my question pertains to. I won't lie, it feels like bullcrap much like fighting people with good ping, but at this point, I'm just wondering how to deal with it across multiple ladders. I don't mind bowspamming until the cows come home in relevant ladders, but I'm wondering if I can melee on semi-fair terms with people or not without that option. (Assume 20-70FPS, 70ish ping (unstable with a range of over 200, in usually short spikes))

Sorry for the rant, but it's 3 AM, and I just want to post before I head to bed.

Short version is, what effect does jitter-clicking have on a fight against someone at 6-7 CPS?


 1
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 04:28 AM

https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/143828
 0
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 08:19 AM

hits land more consistently, as the hit cooldown resets more immediately

The player with a higher clickspeed often gets the first hit

Higher clickspeed lets you deal more kb and 'take less' kb (cant be bothered explaining why xd)
 0
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 08:26 AM

I have 6-7 cps and I only notice a slight difference with hits when I jitter click, however my hands cramp up really quickly and I can't aim that well so I don't jitter. If it's a health concern then it isn't worth it.
 0
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 09:32 AM

@Unwise Can you link the twitlonger with you talking about CPS?
 1
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 09:48 AM

Bain_ wrote

I have 6-7 cps and I only notice a slight difference with hits when I jitter click, however my hands cramp up really quickly and I can't aim that well so I don't jitter. If it's a health concern then it isn't worth it.
I think people don't notice a difference because they aren't consistent with their clicks while jittering. You gotta have stamina and keep your clicks coming at a constant rate that doesn't fluctuate (like 13 cps one moment, 6 the next) or else jittering is pointless.

And yeah, if you have joint problems, I wouldn't recommend jitterclicking.
 1
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 12:15 PM

ginie4 wrote

@Unwise Can you link the twitlonger with you talking about CPS?

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sp4auq
 1
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 12:28 PM

Unwise wrote

ginie4 wrote...


http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sp4auq
thanks.
 1
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 02:54 PM

Oh hey, I know you from the Hypixel forums. I'll tell you what I know though:


With 6-7 cps you already should be good to go in any kit that doesn't involve potions. Again, aim is key but w-tapping, although hard to master, can be fatal. I jitter 11-13 cps, have pretty good aim, and when I wtap I usually win the fight. My tips might be out of your league, but they can be used effectively.


1. Not many people jitter, so you're already okay with plenty of players. Just use secondaries a lot more and you'll be fine.
2. If you don't already have good aim, lower your sensitivity/dpi, although many know about this.
3. Wtapping can be fatal, I spam w when I fight someone but if you can get the timing down then you're going to be an absolute legend.
 1
PM Link

Last edited on 19 November 2016 - 04:45 PM by Archybot

The reality of it is timing > speed. A player can only be hit every 500ms (when you get hit, you turn red for 500ms). Two things happen during this:
1. If you get hit again during this downtime and the damage is weaker, nothing happens.
2. If you get hit again during this downtime and the damage is greater, the difference gets added up (so if I get hit originally for 1.5, and then someone sends 2.0 damage, the .5 gets added and now top damage is 2.0)

So in reality, jitter clicking can be worse then just hitting someone nearly perfectly every 500 ms for max damage possible.

Assume 0 lag and each attack is max and every attack hits (player isn't moving)
Someone who clicks 7 cps attacks every 142.8 ms. Going to just do whole integers
0 (damage)
142 (no damage - counter is 142/500)
285 (no damage - counter is 285/500)
427 (no damage - counter is 427/500)
570 (damage - counter is 0/500) - lost time is 70 from point 0
712 (no damage - counter is 142/500)
855 (no damage - counter is 285/500)
997 (no damage - counter is 427/500)
1140 (damage - counter is 0/500) - lost time is 140 from point 0

For someone clicking 7cps perfectly, they lose 70ms each attack.
The whole purpose of jitterclicking is to reduce this time to the bare minimum.
Someone who clicks (max attack) a perfect 501ms (<2cps) will have the most damage

Overall, speed is easier, but timing is way more powerful which is why most of the greats don't click more then 6-8cps.
 4
PM Link

Posted on 19 November 2016 - 05:23 PM

Archybot wrote

The reality of it is timing > speed. A player can only be hit every 500ms (when you get hit, you turn red for 500ms). Two things happen during this:
1. If you get hit again during this downtime and the damage is weaker, nothing happens.
2. If you get hit again during this downtime and the damage is greater, the difference gets added up (so if I get hit originally for 1.5, and then someone sends 2.0 damage, the .5 gets added and now top damage is 2.0)

So in reality, jitter clicking can be worse then just hitting someone nearly perfectly every 500 ms for max damage possible.

Assume 0 lag and each attack is max and every attack hits (player isn't moving)
Someone who clicks 7 cps attacks every 142.8 ms. Going to just do whole integers
0 (damage)
142 (no damage - counter is 142/500)
285 (no damage - counter is 285/500)
427 (no damage - counter is 427/500)
570 (damage - counter is 0/500) - lost time is 70 from point 0
712 (no damage - counter is 142/500)
855 (no damage - counter is 285/500)
997 (no damage - counter is 427/500)
1140 (damage - counter is 0/500) - lost time is 140 from point 0

For someone clicking 7cps perfectly, they lose 70ms each attack.
The whole purpose of jitterclicking is to reduce this time to the bare minimum.
Someone who clicks (max attack) a perfect 501ms (<2cps) will have the most damage

Overall, speed is easier, but timing is way more powerful which is why most of the greats don't click more then 6-8cps.


minecraft
 0
PM Link

Posted on 20 November 2016 - 12:17 AM

Archybot wrote

The reality of it is timing > speed. A player can only be hit every 500ms (when you get hit, you turn red for 500ms). Two things happen during this:
1. If you get hit again during this downtime and the damage is weaker, nothing happens.
2. If you get hit again during this downtime and the damage is greater, the difference gets added up (so if I get hit originally for 1.5, and then someone sends 2.0 damage, the .5 gets added and now top damage is 2.0)

So in reality, jitter clicking can be worse then just hitting someone nearly perfectly every 500 ms for max damage possible.

Assume 0 lag and each attack is max and every attack hits (player isn't moving)
Someone who clicks 7 cps attacks every 142.8 ms. Going to just do whole integers
0 (damage)
142 (no damage - counter is 142/500)
285 (no damage - counter is 285/500)
427 (no damage - counter is 427/500)
570 (damage - counter is 0/500) - lost time is 70 from point 0
712 (no damage - counter is 142/500)
855 (no damage - counter is 285/500)
997 (no damage - counter is 427/500)
1140 (damage - counter is 0/500) - lost time is 140 from point 0

For someone clicking 7cps perfectly, they lose 70ms each attack.
The whole purpose of jitterclicking is to reduce this time to the bare minimum.
Someone who clicks (max attack) a perfect 501ms (<2cps) will have the most damage

Overall, speed is easier, but timing is way more powerful which is why most of the greats don't click more then 6-8cps.

Actually, no.
As @Unwise pointed out in his well made twitlonger, you can register as many hits as you can, but then at the end of that 500ms, it will effectively "choose" the highest damage to be dealt. Someone who clicks exactly 20 CPS would be best because it's once per tick. That means that it would register the most possible chances to get a high damage.
 0
PM Link

Last edited on 20 November 2016 - 02:34 AM by Unwise

Metarus wrote

Archybot wrote...


Actually, no.
As @Unwise pointed out in his well made twitlonger, you can register as many hits as you can, but then at the end of that 500ms, it will effectively "choose" the highest damage to be dealt. Someone who clicks exactly 20 CPS would be best because it's once per tick. That means that it would register the most possible chances to get a high damage.

archy is technically right depending on how you look at it - someone who clicks a perfect 2 cps does exactly as much damage as someone who clicks a perfect 20 cps, excluding the damage overwrite feature. However, in almost all practical circumstances, crits and protection enchant randomization mean you will do more damage with higher cps. It's all about how much randomization occurs in a specific circumstance. For example, in Diamond kit, if you click a "perfect" 2 cps and crit on both of them, you're doing the max possible damage already. In Nodebuff, you aren't, unless you get insanely luck with the randomization on the enchants.

In response to what archy said at the end about the greats clicking slow, I think that that's mostly true due to how much more important aim is compared to cps. It's hard to click fast and aim slow. (also, a lot of the great current players like danteh/hivlik/larz all jitter)
 2
PM Link

Posted on 20 November 2016 - 03:30 PM

I just wanted to thank everyone for the responses and information, particularly for the mathematical breakdowns.

Are there any particularly effective strats to kill a jitter-clicker with good aim? Particularly in ladders without a rod?

@lachlol Is there by any chance a video showing how to time w-taps? My impression was that you simply spammed them if your opponent was trying to move forward into you.

Thanks again for the feedback and help.
 0
PM Link

Posted on 20 November 2016 - 03:58 PM

GeoPaladin wrote

I just wanted to thank everyone for the responses and information, particularly for the mathematical breakdowns.

Are there any particularly effective strats to kill a jitter-clicker with good aim? Particularly in ladders without a rod?

@lachlol Is there by any chance a video showing how to time w-taps? My impression was that you simply spammed them if your opponent was trying to move forward into you.

Thanks again for the feedback and help.








Apparently that's how you do it, I couldn't watch the whole video but I'll bet he explains it well. You can also just search for tutorials on how to w-tap as well.
 0
PM Link