Posted on 07 January 2017 - 10:33 PM
Zaptelus wrote
Posted on 07 January 2017 - 10:48 PM
Reddy23 wrote
Zaptelus wrote...
Posted on 07 January 2017 - 11:14 PM
mmrPosted on 07 January 2017 - 11:22 PM
MMR doesn't work for a community as small as AU,so for me it's Elo. If I was NA I would probably say otherwisePosted on 08 January 2017 - 12:15 AM
Why are people still talking about bringing back elo, clearly it isn't going to happenPosted on 08 January 2017 - 12:24 AM
Automatically DeletedPosted on 08 January 2017 - 01:07 AM
Whether or not elo has any chance of coming back, shutting down the discussion by lighting a pitchfork and yelling "elo sucks!" isn't the answer. If you want a community to play your ranked game, you need that community to have faith in the system, and if the system truly is objectively superior, then the community will support it. You just need to inform them on why it is superior, rather than calling them retarded and hazy-eyed nostalgic. Elo and MMR both have their strengths, and I promise 99% of the people who open, or worse, close the discussion between the two systems really aren't informed enough on either system to be able to do so. I know I'm not. So instead of saying "MMR is competitive and elo is not!" or "you only like elo because you were high ranked in its system," inform yourself on how the systems work so you work to inform those who do not understand. Personally, my biggest problem with MMR has nothing to do with the rating system - the problem I have with it is that it's so hard to educate myself on Badlion's specific use of the system (in comparison with elo) that I don't know how to put my trust into the system. How can I tell people that MMR is truly better than elo when I can't even figure that out myself?Posted on 08 January 2017 - 01:38 AM
MMRPros:
- You statistically get drained less
- It's more aesthetically appealing to rankup as opposed to hitting a milestone with elo (ex: 2100, 2200, etc.)
- You are put up against your rank, making to an extent, the people at the top the ones who are truly the best, not the ones who grinded 1400's the way there.
- It still has a point system very similar to elo
Cons:
- Longer to get placed into a match
ELO
Pros:
- Easier to get high on leaderboards by grinding 1400's
- Faster queue, but at the potential of a less point gain and larger point loss
Cons:
- You lose a lot more points compared to MMR
There isn't a true way to tell which system is better, you can't really compare the two in any rational situation. This is just how I view the differences between the systems to see which has more pros and less cons. Sure I left a few out, but I can't think of everything wrong and right with either system off the top of my head.Logically, both have their positives and both have their negatives. No one system is really that better than the other. Giving my opinion I don't think one is better than the other. You can get on the leaderboards cheaply with either system. If elo comes back, the part of the community that likes MMR will be pissed. If it doesn't come back, the part of the community that likes ELO will be pissed (current). The "LOYAL" community as said in the title of this thread wouldn't fucking care what system is in place. The "LOYAL" community would support Badlion and it's decisions and get over the fact that ELO probably wont return.
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 01:52 AM
i know its not coming backbut ill prefer elo
Last edited on 08 January 2017 - 02:26 AM by MasterGberry
TS720p wrote
Pros:
- You statistically get drained less
- It's more aesthetically appealing to rankup as opposed to hitting a milestone with elo (ex: 2100, 2200, etc.)
- You are put up against your rank, making to an extent, the people at the top the ones who are truly the best, not the ones who grinded 1400's the way there.
- It still has a point system very similar to elo
Cons:
- Longer to get placed into a match
ELO
Pros:
- Easier to get high on leaderboards by grinding 1400's
- Faster queue, but at the potential of a less point gain and larger point loss
Cons:
- You lose a lot more points compared to MMR
There isn't a true way to tell which system is better, you can't really compare the two in any rational situation. This is just how I view the differences between the systems to see which has more pros and less cons. Sure I left a few out, but I can't think of everything wrong and right with either system off the top of my head.Logically, both have their positives and both have their negatives. No one system is really that better than the other. Giving my opinion I don't think one is better than the other. You can get on the leaderboards cheaply with either system. If elo comes back, the part of the community that likes MMR will be pissed. If it doesn't come back, the part of the community that likes ELO will be pissed (current). The "LOYAL" community as said in the title of this thread wouldn't fucking care what system is in place. The "LOYAL" community would support Badlion and it's decisions and get over the fact that ELO probably wont return.
Good summary.
What every person is complaining about in terms of the cons with MMR isn't MMR itself, it's the matchmaking system of a rating scanning system vs a random opponent like our old ELO matchmaker did.
We are definitely looking into adjusting the matchmaker in season 15 as we are rebuilding it already to be more efficient and accurate.
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 02:28 AM
MasterGberry wrote
TS720p wrote...
Good summary.
What every person is complaining about in terms of the cons with MMR isn't MMR itself, it's the matchmaking system of a rating scanning system vs a random opponent like our old ELO matchmaker did.
We are definitely looking into adjusting the matchmaker in season 15 as we are rebuilding it already to be more efficient and accurate.
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 06:40 AM
Imo the worst thing about MMR is the rankup matches. I could be on 999 points and atill have to win 2 more matches despite being 1 point away.Posted on 08 January 2017 - 08:05 AM
Msging wrote
You could be on 1 point and have to play two matches despite being 1 point away from being demoted.
Last edited on 08 January 2017 - 08:52 AM by MasterGberry
Msging wrote
You actually don't lose these points if you go into a promotion match. If you win your promotion match you get the points you won from your promotion match + the leftover points you had before you got into it. Same if you lose, the extra points are added to the points you lost.
Maybe we should present this information to the user so they don't think it is lost, because it is not.
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 09:13 AM
MasterGberry wrote
Msging wrote...
You actually don't lose these points if you go into a promotion match. If you win your promotion match you get the points you won from your promotion match + the leftover points you had before you got into it. Same if you lose, the extra points are added to the points you lost.
Maybe we should present this information to the user so they don't think it is lost, because it is not.
Fair enough it's just frustrating how even if your past 1k you aren't physically the rankup but I guess it has to work like that.
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 09:24 AM
ELO is wished more by the community but MMR is more fair and "represents" the competitive community, there was another strawpoll with around 900 votes for ELO and around 60 for MMR but nothing happened, no matter how many people want ELO back it wont come back partly because the owners are a bit stubborn(sorry) and partly because MMR is supposedly better for competitive gameplay(idk a lot about this), elo seems more addicting though, but makes you lose a lot if you lose once, making you forced to maintain a good kdr if you are fighting only people who give you +1(32kdr to keep gaining elo) while in MMR you only need a 17 kdr pretty surePosted on 08 January 2017 - 09:49 AM
I don't miss ELO in the slightest. I was tired of getting matches with 1100 ( people who drained themselves) and 2000s. it was kinda rare for me to placed with someone in 1400-1500Posted on 08 January 2017 - 02:28 PM
TS720p wrote
Pros:
- You statistically get drained less
- It's more aesthetically appealing to rankup as opposed to hitting a milestone with elo (ex: 2100, 2200, etc.)
- You are put up against your rank, making to an extent, the people at the top the ones who are truly the best, not the ones who grinded 1400's the way there.
- It still has a point system very similar to elo
Cons:
- Longer to get placed into a match
ELO
Pros:
- Easier to get high on leaderboards by grinding 1400's
- Faster queue, but at the potential of a less point gain and larger point loss
Cons:
- You lose a lot more points compared to MMR
There isn't a true way to tell which system is better, you can't really compare the two in any rational situation. This is just how I view the differences between the systems to see which has more pros and less cons. Sure I left a few out, but I can't think of everything wrong and right with either system off the top of my head.Logically, both have their positives and both have their negatives. No one system is really that better than the other. Giving my opinion I don't think one is better than the other. You can get on the leaderboards cheaply with either system. If elo comes back, the part of the community that likes MMR will be pissed. If it doesn't come back, the part of the community that likes ELO will be pissed (current). The "LOYAL" community as said in the title of this thread wouldn't fucking care what system is in place. The "LOYAL" community would support Badlion and it's decisions and get over the fact that ELO probably wont return.
So people like speedily that grinded off of silvers and bronzes is truly the best?
He is at like masters 3k
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 02:35 PM
RetrosStackOfFov wrote
TS720p wrote...
So people like speedily that grinded off of silvers and bronzes is truly the best?
He is at like masters 3k
Posted on 08 January 2017 - 02:37 PM
TS720p wrote
RetrosStackOfFov wrote...
Still, He might have fought some diamonds or emeralds but if you look at his masters video, he rekt everyone simply because they were bronzes/silvers/golds