Last edited on 08 September 2017 - 06:24 PM by Cratain

UPDATE || Map edit changelog as of 08/19/2017

In response to feedback, we have done a large overhaul of Station and an aesthetic overhaul of Basilica. With them updated, we feel comfortable with and confident in our final pool of 5 maps, listed below. Although we may make small further edits, expect nothing too ground breaking done to the maps. We understand you will need some time to practice with them in a stable form–now is that time.

Final Map Pool

Basilica || Map by Reshif and Cratain, aesthetics by BlueSnowflakes, Strangey, and Claf

Station || Map by Reshif and Cratain, aesthetics by NixaniaXi and DiamondAx

Aerospace || Map by Reshif, aesthetics by InfinityGamers

Bazaar || Map and aesthetics by NixaniaXi

Versatile || Map and aesthetics by DoomyBoy and LArrowHead

UPDATE || Map edit changelog as of 08/04/2017

The following updates have been made in response to initial feedback and our own observation of matches. They should be live in the near future. We will continue to spectate matches and take feedback for these version of the maps, and may push further updates in the future.

Basilica:

Increase respawn timer from 5 to 8

Aerospace:

Reopened lava in mid tunnel

Necropolis:

Fix previous asymmetry

Widened and streamlined side lanes

Removed the jump from mid to back platforms

Opened up wall in mid for arrow fire

Take Out:

Added some cover in bottom mid

Moved stairs in mid

Opened up cover in bell tower

Revamped flag area (removed 2nd floor, added minimal cover)

Replaced underpass with one-way route from mid to flag

Added risky one-way flank route on left side (faster respawn path)

Modified koi pond chokepoint

Simple aesthetic changes

Station:

Widened bottom floor

Added arrow spawners on sides

Increased from 2 to 5 seconds

Removed side cover at mid

Bazaar:

Reverted wood floor flag-room to lava pit

Increased respawn timer from 5 to 8 seconds

Versatile:

No changes

We're back! Sorry for the delay. Since the last round of testing, we had some issues to resolve, both with the maps themselves and the way in which we test them. In the past week we have made changes on both fronts–chiefly, they are as follows:

1. For all maps, we have increased the amount of arrows players will spawn with from 16 to 32. In several maps, we wished to encourage more bow-oriented PvP, and we felt that with 16 arrows, this was simply not possible. Additionally, arrow spawners will spawn at a greater speed (2 arrows per second), and the arrow kill reward is now 12 instead of 8. All in all, we hope you will find yourselves with significantly more in your quiver, and that you can use a bow more as a weapon in its own right, rather than a way of stalling before a sword fight.

2. We are changing the way we test. We found ourselves with so many teams willing to help us test last time that it seemed like a shame not being able to take them up on it. Therefore, instead of hosting one server where we pick teams to play, we are setting up the scrim servers with 7 potential maps for you to test. We ask that you spend the next week playing as much as you can, getting to know the maps in general and deciding which you think should be in the tournament.

I ask you to keep the following in mind while testing:

Of course, if there is anything game breaking about the maps, let us know as soon as possible. Other than that, I ask that you wait the week before telling us how you feel. We are making maps for you all that we think will allow the better team to be the victor, even in a close match between incredibly talented competitors. We are not interested in how the map plays between teams who have played it 1, 2, 3 times. We are interested in how it plays between experts. We want you to play the map over and over till you know each block by heart. We expect you to play with that level of understanding in the tournament, so we want to make sure we do our testing under the same conditions.

Next, bear in mind that while we will listen to and consider all of your feedback, ultimately the final maps in the event and the updates to be made to them will be our decision. It will not be done by popular vote. We respect what you will learn about the maps, all the same, you all are competing in this event. You will naturally prefer the maps that you tend to do well on, which are not necessarily the same maps that play best.

Last but not least, the maps you will play in this event are a different type of CTF than you are used to. You could play them as you did the last tournament's map pool, but I believe you will do much better if you do not. We have made maps that favor bow combat, positioning, and map control in a way I believe is new to Badlion. In team fights, coordination is in many ways as important as individual PvP skill. A similar coordination will be required of you here, but one that is in many ways different. You will be challenged not only to work well when together, as in team fights, but also when apart. The teams that communicate best, that keep track of their positions and their opponent's, that know what to do even when under pressure–these will be the team to beat, I believe.

Without further adieu, here is a list of the maps we have for you.

Basilica || Map by Reshif and Cratain, aesthetics by BlueSnowflakes

Aerospace || Map by Reshif, aesthetics by InfinityGamers

Necropolis || Map and aesthetics by DiamondAx

Bazaar || Map and aesthetics by NixaniaXi

Versatile || Map and aesthetics by DoomyBoy and LArrowHead

[NEW] Station || Map by Reshif and Cratain, aesthetics by NixaniaXi and DiamondAx

[NEW] Take Out || Map and aesthetics by Strangey and DiamondAx

Thank you all for your feedback from the last round of testing, and your patience with us as we got out this next one! If you have any questions, please feel free to ask here. Should you for some reason wish to talk in private–to keep a strategy secret, for example–I am always available to talk on Discord. Lastly, we plan to create a final pool of 5 maps from the 7 possibilities listed above. There may be more possibilities added later, if necessary. We'll keep you posted!

Regards,
Your Badlion Build Team

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 06:19 PM

Great to see the bow is being made a vital part of the gamemode. Maps look nice and I look forward to trying them out.

Thanks!

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 06:50 PM

YESSS!!!!
If anyone wants to scrim anytime pls PM me on discord Kiivo #7424

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 07:41 PM

Nice :3

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 07:49 PM

GG

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 09:05 PM

Played most of these. Aerospace/Take out have some issues. I will expand in a bit.

Last edited on 01 August 2017 - 09:14 PM by Robiswell

Yes finally a huge update to my favorite gamemode!

Also will badlion make Public CTF 2 teams instead of 4?

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 09:57 PM

hype

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 10:36 PM

Automatically Deleted

Posted on 01 August 2017 - 11:43 PM

These look awesome!

Last edited on 02 August 2017 - 02:48 PM by Mattato

Played the maps a bunch of times today, I'll post indepth feedback tomorrow after I think some more but I have a few concerns:

1. The kit and respawn timers
The CTF kit makes for very quick fights, because both the sword and bow can deal 2.5+ hearts. This encourages painlooping. Painlooping is fine, but not if there isn't a clear and consistently increasing respawn timer. I don't think I need to get into why respawn timers need to exist since that's already been explored thoroughly on OCN.

2. Randomized damage
I don't get how this is a thing (but it is, and it's exclusive to badlion!), but the damage from bows and crits seem to be randomized and widely ranging. I've seen fully charged arrows do between 0.5 - 3.5 hearts and crits range from 2-3.5 hearts. I don't think RNG is healthy in this gamemode, this needs to be fixed. ASAP - I don't think the kits are enchanted and the variance shouldn't be so large even with enchant %ages.

3. Amount of arrows
Arrows deal an average of 2-2.5 hearts. The kit doesn't require more arrows, especially since there are kill rewards and pickups. 32 arrows are excessive, 16 was fine. I'll go more into this when I rant about enforcing a control playstyle down below.

4. Boosting
Giving players the ability to boost is the same as to giving them the ability to elytra around the map right now. All of the fenced off areas of maps and small areas you can't get up/through are made accessible when they clearly are not meant to be - You can bypass chokepoints and other fun stuff like that.

If boosting is going to be allowed, mapmakers actually need to actively consider it, otherwise it's going to be an exploitable gimmick (I'm pretty sure we don't want exploitable gimmicks in 1000$ tournaments idk)

5. SUPER IMPORTANT - Putting a cap on flags captured.
I don't think CTF should be based around who can cap the most flags - It should be based around who can capture a limited amount of flags. There's a lot of theory out there around objectives, but the general consensus is that if you set a hard cap on amount of goals/points possible, players will play a far more organized playstyle, and part of that is the cognitive science behind knowing the end goal (a set amount of flags rather than just 'more than your opponent'). It also allows for shorter matches. I think a hard cap of 5 flags would be pretty good, with ties going into overtime.

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 06:49 AM

yes finally ctf has an update

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 07:53 AM

gg ctf gonna be #1 again like this season

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 08:08 AM

I think now the amount of arrows is excesive, Imo 16 was fine, but the amount of arrows that now the spawner produce is better, so I would keep the amount of arrows of before the update, but put the arrow spawner as it is right now

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 10:02 AM

I'd rather we not clutter this thread with a discussion about the differences between Public and Competitive CTF. Both require skill, just different skill. As for the initial feedback, we are reading it all and taking some into account, but remember: we are very much intending you to play these maps differently than you are used to. To a certain degree, we expect it will take you a few days to get to know these maps.

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 02:41 PM

Bazaar:

This is my simple understanding of the map:



Red shows entrances to the top area
Pink shows how players can rotate to the top areas
Yellow shows chokepoints


1. Middle tower is supposed to be most important thing on the map, but its incredibly toxic to fight for.

I understand the point of the middle tower - You can access everything if you have control of it. Right now, its very hard to fight for it because the fighting area is divided into 3 sections around the rails, in like 7 block-wide areas, and you can get caught behind and ontop of ladders, which is just… toxic. 7 wide corridors without cover is asking for brainless painlooping and clusterfucked teamfights.

This goes hand in hand with the next problem (i have a suggested solution at the end dont worry)

2. Linear Gameplay

The map plays very linearly because it is very hard to move around. The hallways make it so you can only move forward or backward, the top side areas are completely cut off from the middle top area which makes it very hard to teampush off of anything EXCEPT running forward from the middle tower. The whole concept of control is hyper-incentivized to the point where you have to give up complete map control if you want to team push off the side lanes, which doesn't make any sense to me because gameplay then becomes static: The whole 12 minutes of the match will be pushing back and forth off that top middle area, and there's nothing teams can even do to play around it because there's only 1 way up to the top middle.

Imo it should just be completely changed, this is a poor outline but it shows off the concept well enough:



You can get to the middle from the sides, and you then you can jump to the middle to the staircase platforms. This would completely change the dynamic of the map though, side control would be relevant and the middle wouldn't be the main way to push.

Regardless, the middle area needs to be better for pvp and there should be more ways to rotate to the sides.



3. Defending the flag is far too easy because of the gimmicky platforms
One arrow shot or one hit knocks you off. The defenders already have quite a distinct advantage on this map because of how the entire defense can be concentrated on 1 access point (Pink circle) (Yellow represents how you can attack the flag, red shows how you can run back, green shows where smart defenders will hold)



I suggest making the main defender choke where the giant pink circle is. Do this by making adding fall areas, like the ones by the flag currently, where the orange circles are. The way that pink circle area is designed makes it viewable from every point of the map, which requires defenders to be on their toes instead of just waiting for someone to approach their 10 block wide chokepoint. Making the flag platform smaller, having stairs placed on the way up to the flag platform, and/or making the area below the flag larger could be small edits that would make a big difference in the choke-y-ness of the flag area as well.




I'll edit my first post after this

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 03:04 PM

hi mattato

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 03:20 PM

Issue:
Necropolis isn't even symmetrical xD
https://imgur.com/a/it88m

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 04:50 PM

So sorry about that, I think I sent the wrong version of the map in to be loaded. It will be fixed tonight, but it may take some time for the change to be live. I'll let you know when it's fixed–play through the issue if you think it's small, or focus on other maps for now if it bothers you.

Posted on 02 August 2017 - 05:15 PM

There is a bug on Bazaar:

If you get hit out of the world with the flag (on the left side of spawn, if that's relevant at all), the flag doesn't respawn and the player who died has to run back to cap the invisible flag.

The bug is inconsistent btw