Posted on 24 August 2017 - 03:02 PM
Ultra's elo isn't really elo, just a number system. But if you want to call it elo, the k value would be 25.Posted on 24 August 2017 - 03:26 PM
seaniysean101 wrote
Archybot wrote...
I agree, if you compare season 12 matches played vs season 14 matches played, you can see that the top ranked players on each ladder played 5-6x more matches to maintain the top positions on the leaderboards, this was because you gained 13 elo each win and only lost 214 max which is equivalent to 16 elo anyways 14 x 8 = 224 so basically season 14's gain/loss ratio is very similar to this seasons elo system, the only difference is that you dont get promotion matches/demotion matches. Losing a lot of elo is when you are highly ranked is very demotivating
You're comparing a three month season to a year long season my dude
Posted on 24 August 2017 - 03:27 PM
Gulleboy wrote
Ultra's elo is elo, and the k value is actually around 50. Wrote about it on twitter if you're interested.
Posted on 24 August 2017 - 03:56 PM
Unwise wrote
Gulleboy wrote...
Ultra's elo is elo, and the k value is actually around 50. Wrote about it on twitter if you're interested.
Posted on 24 August 2017 - 07:45 PM
Unwise wrote
seaniysean101 wrote...
You're comparing a three month season to a year long season my dude
I mean, compare season 12 build to the not even 2 week season 15 beta and the top 20 people, on average, have already played more on S15 then S12…
Last edited on 25 August 2017 - 04:49 PM by BustyBista
im retardedPosted on 24 August 2017 - 08:37 PM
Pika12X wrote
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Posted on 24 August 2017 - 08:41 PM
Archybot wrote
Unwise wrote...
I mean, compare season 12 build to the not even 2 week season 15 beta and the top 20 people, on average, have already played more on S15 then S12…
Last edited on 24 August 2017 - 09:57 PM by Archybot
Ponca wrote
MasterGberry wrote...
That poll is literally retarded as FUCK LOL. You need more choices on that like the S12 elo. I voted 16 on that because it was the highest. If u would've put the s12 elo option me and a lot of other probs would've put that as their choice.
You're actually stupid as fuck because +-16 is s12 elo.
This is a prime example of why a honest dictatorship is better than a free democracy.
Posted on 24 August 2017 - 10:05 PM
Archybot wrote
Unwise wrote...
Having to win 31 matches in a row also is exactly why most top players stop playing once they reach their goal instead of pushing on, especially in ladders that have higher hacker to legit ratio, like nodebuff, or ladders that take long matches, such as gapple.
Forgot to respond to this. I think you're describing an issue that any season-based game/gamemode experiences - people play a ton in the start of a season, and then it drops off, only to spike again at the very end.
Here's the thing: I don't really think the solution to that drop off is to increase the grindiness of the game so that top players have to spend more time playing to get high rating, and also make it easier for them to grind even higher so they'll keep playing even after they have a top spot. Keep in mind, these top players you're worried about are only a tiny percentage of your overall playerbase, and all of us are impacted by the rating change. I hit 2000 a few times during s12, and it's taking me forever just to get to 1500 this season. And that's just the grindy aspect.
Making it easier for top players (ie penalizing inconsistency less) also hurts bad players. Take an 1100 player who beats a 1600 - he's only going to gain 13 or 14 elo from the match, instead of something in the upper 20s, but he's going to lose the same 1 elo he would lose in s12 from any match against a high level player. Losing his elo is just as easy, but gaining it back is much harder.
But I entirely agree with you in saying that Badlion's lack of player engagement after the start of a season is a real issue. I've been paying a bit of attention to Overwatch lately, and while they obviously aren't a close comparison to Badlion, they battle the same issue. I'm not sure how familiar you are with it, but it looks like they have an elo decay feature to incentivize players to stay engaged, which is pretty unpopular. For the next season they appear to have nerfed it a bit, slowing the decay and requiring less games to avoid it. What they also have done, though, is shorten their seasons from three months to two months. If Badlion is having trouble keeping players around for a full season (which as far as I can tell it almost always has) why not shorten seasons slightly? Season 15 seems like it should handle most of Arena's longstanding issues, so major development periods shouldn't be necessary too often going forward.
TL;DR you might think about shortening season length.
Posted on 24 August 2017 - 10:38 PM
Archybot wrote
Ponca wrote...
You're actually stupid as fuck because +-16 is s12 elo.
This is a prime example of why a honest dictatorship is better than a free democracy.
Mmm what. In s12 u gained like 30 something max.
Last edited on 24 August 2017 - 11:27 PM by Metarus
Ponca wrote
Archybot wrote...
Mmm what. In s12 u gained like 30 something max.
It said -31 max loss, and in Elo that means 31 max win. That means that the maximum you could lose was 31… I have no words. +-16 is for an even match.
Posted on 25 August 2017 - 01:06 AM
Automatically DeletedPosted on 25 August 2017 - 12:15 PM
Unwise wrote
Archybot wrote...
Forgot to respond to this. I think you're describing an issue that any season-based game/gamemode experiences - people play a ton in the start of a season, and then it drops off, only to spike again at the very end.
Here's the thing: I don't really think the solution to that drop off is to increase the grindiness of the game so that top players have to spend more time playing to get high rating, and also make it easier for them to grind even higher so they'll keep playing even after they have a top spot. Keep in mind, these top players you're worried about are only a tiny percentage of your overall playerbase, and all of us are impacted by the rating change. I hit 2000 a few times during s12, and it's taking me forever just to get to 1500 this season. And that's just the grindy aspect.
Making it easier for top players (ie penalizing inconsistency less) also hurts bad players. Take an 1100 player who beats a 1600 - he's only going to gain 13 or 14 elo from the match, instead of something in the upper 20s, but he's going to lose the same 1 elo he would lose in s12 from any match against a high level player. Losing his elo is just as easy, but gaining it back is much harder.
But I entirely agree with you in saying that Badlion's lack of player engagement after the start of a season is a real issue. I've been paying a bit of attention to Overwatch lately, and while they obviously aren't a close comparison to Badlion, they battle the same issue. I'm not sure how familiar you are with it, but it looks like they have an elo decay feature to incentivize players to stay engaged, which is pretty unpopular. For the next season they appear to have nerfed it a bit, slowing the decay and requiring less games to avoid it. What they also have done, though, is shorten their seasons from three months to two months. If Badlion is having trouble keeping players around for a full season (which as far as I can tell it almost always has) why not shorten seasons slightly? Season 15 seems like it should handle most of Arena's longstanding issues, so major development periods shouldn't be necessary too often going forward.
TL;DR you might think about shortening season length.
We are indeed thinking about shortening seasons if we are going to use 32k value ELO.
ELO decay is bad because decay is supposed to emulate loss of skill, which isn't true.
Posted on 25 August 2017 - 12:40 PM
Pika12X wrote
Posted on 25 August 2017 - 11:53 PM
I honestly prefer this elo over s12. I like to grind ladders less played like Gapple, and it's super hard to remain consistent in such an unplayed ladder full of cheaters, this s15 elo is much more forgiving, and also adds a lot more competition to high ranked players.Posted on 26 August 2017 - 02:43 AM
The way I see it, players will have different opinions on the elo system based on their current rank. For example, someone with low elo would probably dislike the new system because they lose a lot of points for losing to players who are better than them, but people with higher ranks would prefer this because it doesn't require them to be as consistent.Posted on 26 August 2017 - 12:18 PM
Legendcaleb wrote
Last edited on 26 August 2017 - 12:28 PM by c6sey
stop playing this game you are like 20 - 21 years old. 0 LIFEPosted on 26 August 2017 - 12:30 PM
Icehawk wrote
Legendcaleb wrote...
stop playing this game you are like 20 - 21 years old. 0 LIFE