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Higher CPS Decreases Knockback + Increases Hit Registry
Posted on 14 September 2017 - 09:28 AM
minecraftPosted on 14 September 2017 - 10:02 AM
tocametocame wrote
minecraft
I agree
Posted on 15 September 2017 - 07:30 AM
Does this also works if you are not hitting your opponent but swinging at him? For example if I was in creative mode and guy X was swinging at me in range would he still take less kb? If so we can demonstrate it very easilyPosted on 15 September 2017 - 06:50 PM
Radioactivebeans wrote
Does this also works if you are not hitting your opponent but swinging at him? For example if I was in creative mode and guy X was swinging at me in range would he still take less kb? If so we can demonstrate it very easily
No it is only on attack packets
Posted on 17 September 2017 - 03:27 PM
Automatically DeletedPosted on 21 September 2017 - 12:10 PM
logicalpencils wrote
So explain to me again how 1.12 pvp is bad, then?
you serious?
Posted on 21 September 2017 - 12:50 PM
Automatically DeletedLast edited on 21 September 2017 - 05:14 PM by logicalpencils
Foxize wrote
Did you look at his latest video?
Yes, and it's surprisingly unpolished considering how in-depth and objective he goes into other topics.
His first point is that "it's slow because cooldown", which is just not true if you actually got good at playing with said cooldowns. Like, the cooldown for swords is literally .1 second longer than damage immunity - the dps is essentially the same (if not greater) on 1.9+.
The second point is on "shields", but it's really just that he doesn't like that blockhitting was removed. I personally never saw any particular skill or thought involved with blockhitting - you just click two buttons instead of one and you magically take less damage. But I can see arguments for it being a "good feature/bug", so it's a half-decent point.
His third point is that sweep attack = killaura, which is a comparison so laughable it might as well go into one of his own "ROASTED" videos. Sweep attack only works if you're at full charge, on the ground, not sprinting, and you actually hit a target with the main attack. And even then, the sweep attack doesn't affect the person you hit, and simply does ~3 blocks of kb to other players within ~1 block of the person you hit that are also within your 3-block reach. The sweep also does a measly half-heart of damage (before armor is considered) unless you have the Sweeping Edge enchantment, which at max level increases the sweep's damage to .75*swordBaseDamage+1. Yea, what a broken killaura ability.
He mentions attack animations, which of course don't matter anyways because you aren't going to be spam-clicking all that much.
He concludes with talking about the vast protocol differences that show why servers don't often update to 1.9+. Which is like… no duh, of course if a server wants to support a 1.7 playerbase they'll take the path of least effort.
So I suppose he did accurately get his point across about why 1.7 people don't like 1.9+… and also simultaneously showed that 1.7 people don't know all that much about 1.9+ and simply prefer 1.7 because that's what they're used to.
Posted on 21 September 2017 - 05:41 PM
xDanteh wrote
well I click 6cps in build and constantly beat people who jitter
Last edited on 21 September 2017 - 05:51 PM by tobleroone
logicalpencils wrote
Foxize wrote...
Yes, and it's surprisingly unpolished considering how in-depth and objective he goes into other topics.
His first point is that "it's slow because cooldown", which is just not true if you actually got good at playing with said cooldowns. Like, the cooldown for swords is literally .1 second longer than damage immunity - the dps is essentially the same (if not greater) on 1.9+.
The second point is on "shields", but it's really just that he doesn't like that blockhitting was removed. I personally never saw any particular skill or thought involved with blockhitting - you just click two buttons instead of one and you magically take less damage. But I can see arguments for it being a "good feature/bug", so it's a half-decent point.
His third point is that sweep attack = killaura, which is a comparison so laughable it might as well go into one of his own "ROASTED" videos. Sweep attack only works if you're at full charge, on the ground, not sprinting, and you actually hit a target with the main attack. And even then, the sweep attack doesn't affect the person you hit, and simply does ~3 blocks of kb to other players within ~1 block of the person you hit that are also within your 3-block reach. The sweep also does a measly half-heart of damage (before armor is considered) unless you have the Sweeping Edge enchantment, which at max level increases the sweep's damage to .75*swordBaseDamage+1. Yea, what a broken killaura ability.
He mentions attack animations, which of course don't matter anyways because you aren't going to be spam-clicking all that much.
He concludes with talking about the vast protocol differences that show why servers don't often update to 1.9+. Which is like… no duh, of course if a server wants to support a 1.7 playerbase they'll take the path of least effort.
So I suppose he did accurately get his point across about why 1.7 people don't like 1.9+… and also simultaneously showed that 1.7 people don't know all that much about 1.9+ and simply prefer 1.7 because that's what they're used to.
Last edited on 21 September 2017 - 05:50 PM by tobleroone
snipPosted on 21 September 2017 - 09:53 PM
Toblerone456 wrote
we prefer 1.7 cause 1.9 is tRaSh. with block hitting, you have to be good (something you probably don't know about) to actually use it effectively. if you just spam both buttons you'll lose easily, you have to time it. have you never watched a good player play? servers don't update to 1.9 because 1.7 is so much better, not cause they're lazy. don't you think it'd be so much easier to convert to 1.9 and get all the new easy plugins being made on their server instead of using the old 1.7 ones??? you're actually unintelligent
Hold on, so your argument for blockhitting being a good mechanic is that it requires timing to use… but swords requiring timing in 1.9+ is bad somehow?
I've watched good players play quite a bit, including Tene. And I personally find 1.7 spazzy and full of a lot of spectacle but not a lot of substance. And I'm not arrogant enough to call people who prefer a different kind of combat bad at pvp like you are.
As for servers, no I think it's always easier to do nothing than to do something; changing the server to be up-to-date with the new versions is always difficult, and especially so with the 1.9 changes. If a server can get away with not updating by having a significant 1.7/1.8 playerbase and an indifferent current-version playerbase, then they will. The cost is that people who actually enjoy 1.9+ features, such as 1.12 pvp'ers, builders, mapmakers, etc. can't use them on many servers. I would think you would be sympathetic to large corporate structures not giving players what they want…
Posted on 22 September 2017 - 08:04 AM
logicalpencils wrote
Toblerone456 wrote...
Hold on, so your argument for blockhitting being a good mechanic is that it requires timing to use… but swords requiring timing in 1.9+ is bad somehow?
I've watched good players play quite a bit, including Tene. And I personally find 1.7 spazzy and full of a lot of spectacle but not a lot of substance. And I'm not arrogant enough to call people who prefer a different kind of combat bad at pvp like you are.
As for servers, no I think it's always easier to do nothing than to do something; changing the server to be up-to-date with the new versions is always difficult, and especially so with the 1.9 changes. If a server can get away with not updating by having a significant 1.7/1.8 playerbase and an indifferent current-version playerbase, then they will. The cost is that people who actually enjoy 1.9+ features, such as 1.12 pvp'ers, builders, mapmakers, etc. can't use them on many servers. I would think you would be sympathetic to large corporate structures not giving players what they want…
Posted on 22 September 2017 - 09:56 AM
xDanteh wrote
well I click 6cps in build and constantly beat people who jitter
Posted on 22 September 2017 - 11:03 AM
logicalpencils wrote
Foxize wrote...
Yes, and it's surprisingly unpolished considering how in-depth and objective he goes into other topics.
His first point is that "it's slow because cooldown", which is just not true if you actually got good at playing with said cooldowns. Like, the cooldown for swords is literally .1 second longer than damage immunity - the dps is essentially the same (if not greater) on 1.9+.
The second point is on "shields", but it's really just that he doesn't like that blockhitting was removed. I personally never saw any particular skill or thought involved with blockhitting - you just click two buttons instead of one and you magically take less damage. But I can see arguments for it being a "good feature/bug", so it's a half-decent point.
His third point is that sweep attack = killaura, which is a comparison so laughable it might as well go into one of his own "ROASTED" videos. Sweep attack only works if you're at full charge, on the ground, not sprinting, and you actually hit a target with the main attack. And even then, the sweep attack doesn't affect the person you hit, and simply does ~3 blocks of kb to other players within ~1 block of the person you hit that are also within your 3-block reach. The sweep also does a measly half-heart of damage (before armor is considered) unless you have the Sweeping Edge enchantment, which at max level increases the sweep's damage to .75*swordBaseDamage+1. Yea, what a broken killaura ability.
He mentions attack animations, which of course don't matter anyways because you aren't going to be spam-clicking all that much.
He concludes with talking about the vast protocol differences that show why servers don't often update to 1.9+. Which is like… no duh, of course if a server wants to support a 1.7 playerbase they'll take the path of least effort.
So I suppose he did accurately get his point across about why 1.7 people don't like 1.9+… and also simultaneously showed that 1.7 people don't know all that much about 1.9+ and simply prefer 1.7 because that's what they're used to.
What is there really to say that isn't obvious? Movement is no longer a thing at all in 1.9 pvp, therefore you really don't need good aim at all, already lowers the skill cap by a lot (since most of the pvp in this game is literally just aim). It's just completely mindless as all you have to do is run forward and click once every 3 seconds or whatever the hit cooldown is. I could get some random kid from my school who's never played in his life and just tell him to walk forward and click and he has a equal shot at beating someone who's played for years. All of this "spam clicking" bullshit just sounds completely stupid. You don't even need to click fast to be good at this game at all, it's just an excuse for people who are bad at 1.7 pvp to feel better about themselves when they lose to someone who dedicated themselves more into the pvp aspect of the game than they did.
This "combat update" was solely designed for single player and that's extremely obvious, there'll never be a good 1.9 pvp server because the update itself lowers the skillcap by way too much (and the game barely had a skillcap to begin with).
Personally I think 1.7 is bad when it comes to pvp too, I think the pvp in 1.6 down to beta 1.8 (where they added sprint) was the best that this game could hope for. 1.9 is just ridiculously retarded for pvp. Why should someone who has dedicated years into redstone or some shit be able to beat someone who dedicated years into pvp due to a literal 50% w/l rng combat engagement?
Posted on 22 September 2017 - 02:27 PM
DaGoldBrick wrote
What is there really to say that isn't obvious? Movement is no longer a thing at all in 1.9 pvp, therefore you really don't need good aim at all, already lowers the skill cap by a lot (since most of the pvp in this game is literally just aim). It's just completely mindless as all you have to do is run forward and click once every 3 seconds or whatever the hit cooldown is. I could get some random kid from my school who's never played in his life and just tell him to walk forward and click and he has a equal shot at beating someone who's played for years. All of this "spam clicking" bullshit just sounds completely stupid. You don't even need to click fast to be good at this game at all, it's just an excuse for people who are bad at 1.7 pvp to feel better about themselves when they lose to someone who dedicated themselves more into the pvp aspect of the game than they did.
This "combat update" was solely designed for single player and that's extremely obvious, there'll never be a good 1.9 pvp server because the update itself lowers the skillcap by way too much (and the game barely had a skillcap to begin with).
Personally I think 1.7 is bad when it comes to pvp too, I think the pvp in 1.6 down to beta 1.8 (where they added sprint) was the best that this game could hope for. 1.9 is just ridiculously retarded for pvp. Why should someone who has dedicated years into redstone or some shit be able to beat someone who dedicated years into pvp due to a literal 50% w/l rng combat engagement?
This "combat update" was solely designed for single player and that's extremely obvious, there'll never be a good 1.9 pvp server because the update itself lowers the skillcap by way too much (and the game barely had a skillcap to begin with).
Personally I think 1.7 is bad when it comes to pvp too, I think the pvp in 1.6 down to beta 1.8 (where they added sprint) was the best that this game could hope for. 1.9 is just ridiculously retarded for pvp. Why should someone who has dedicated years into redstone or some shit be able to beat someone who dedicated years into pvp due to a literal 50% w/l rng combat engagement?
Movement is definitely a thing in 1.9+ combat - it isn't like 1.9 rips out the strafe and sprint keys off of your keyboard. You need aim in 1.9+ just as well as in 1.7. The punishment for bad aim in 1.7 is the loss of a combo, whereas the punishment in 1.9 is the loss of .5 seconds of time (the cooldown) where the enemy can respond and attack you. That's really the only difference.
You don't just run forward at each other - I mean, you can do that, but you'd lose easily to someone who can strafe, use shield/bow/pots, etc.
Look at any interview with Dinnerbone about the 1.9 update and you'll see that the developer intention was clearly on making vanilla pvp more interesting, not singleplayer.
People who don't practice or get good at 1.9+ will lose to people that do get good. The skill cap hasn't all of a sudden tanked because of the removal of jitter/butterfly/spam-clicking.
Posted on 22 September 2017 - 08:05 PM
logicalpencils wrote
DaGoldBrick wrote...
Movement is definitely a thing in 1.9+ combat - it isn't like 1.9 rips out the strafe and sprint keys off of your keyboard. You need aim in 1.9+ just as well as in 1.7. The punishment for bad aim in 1.7 is the loss of a combo, whereas the punishment in 1.9 is the loss of .5 seconds of time (the cooldown) where the enemy can respond and attack you. That's really the only difference.
You don't just run forward at each other - I mean, you can do that, but you'd lose easily to someone who can strafe, use shield/bow/pots, etc.
Look at any interview with Dinnerbone about the 1.9 update and you'll see that the developer intention was clearly on making vanilla pvp more interesting, not singleplayer.
People who don't practice or get good at 1.9+ will lose to people that do get good. The skill cap hasn't all of a sudden tanked because of the removal of jitter/butterfly/spam-clicking.
The point was that the system is so bad that it only belongs in singleplayer. The only skillcap the melee system had was that you had to aim properly and click, both of those are gone.
I feel like you're memeing when you say that movement is a thing in 1.9 combat, because there's none involved (maybe VERY SLIGHT, absolutely nothing compared to 1.7). I also don't think you realise how much time 0.5 seconds really is lol. Imagine having such a slow reaction time and others were forced to play with it because you couldn't do something like they did (simply due to a lack of practise), how does that not lower the skill cap?
In terms of pvp the 'combat' update is a joke, and I'm glad everyone who was half decent at the game sees that 1.7 is a far superior for combat and decided to keep their servers that way.
If we were all forced to play 1.9 pvp, everyone who played this game for pvp beforehand would've quit when that update first hit.
Posted on 23 September 2017 - 12:25 AM
DaGoldBrick wrote
The point was that the system is so bad that it only belongs in singleplayer. The only skillcap the melee system had was that you had to aim properly and click, both of those are gone.
I feel like you're memeing when you say that movement is a thing in 1.9 combat, because there's none involved (maybe VERY SLIGHT, absolutely nothing compared to 1.7). I also don't think you realise how much time 0.5 seconds really is lol. Imagine having such a slow reaction time and others were forced to play with it because you couldn't do something like they did (simply due to a lack of practise), how does that not lower the skill cap?
If we were all forced to play 1.9 pvp, everyone who played this game for pvp beforehand would've quit when that update first hit.
I feel like you're memeing when you say that movement is a thing in 1.9 combat, because there's none involved (maybe VERY SLIGHT, absolutely nothing compared to 1.7). I also don't think you realise how much time 0.5 seconds really is lol. Imagine having such a slow reaction time and others were forced to play with it because you couldn't do something like they did (simply due to a lack of practise), how does that not lower the skill cap?
If we were all forced to play 1.9 pvp, everyone who played this game for pvp beforehand would've quit when that update first hit.
The system is not bad. You still have to aim, regardless of having a .5 second time between clicks - you still have to aim to hit that one hit. And it isn't as if you have to aim during those .5 seconds after hitting someone in 1.7, either; damage immunity is a thing. In both 1.7 and 1.9, you spend that .5 seconds while they're blinking red moving around and re-centering your aim to be sure you get the next hit as soon as you can.
I don't think you realize how the enemy's position and activity can change just as well as your aim - having time between swings doesn't make it any easier to aim your hits.
Why would you not be moving in 1.9? That's a ludicrous, unfounded assumption. You strafe left and right, hit people up and down, jump for crits, back up, use e-pearl, etc.
1.9 might lower the clickspeed skill cap (though now there's a timing skillcap), but it increases the skillcap in other areas, such as aiming and timing, as well as adding new areas for skill like offhand usage.
I play this game for pvp, and prefer 1.12, as do most of the players I associate with.
Posted on 26 September 2017 - 01:28 AM
You could've linked one of your videos… LOLPosted on 26 September 2017 - 05:03 AM
logicalpencils wrote
DaGoldBrick wrote...
The system is not bad. You still have to aim, regardless of having a .5 second time between clicks - you still have to aim to hit that one hit. And it isn't as if you have to aim during those .5 seconds after hitting someone in 1.7, either; damage immunity is a thing. In both 1.7 and 1.9, you spend that .5 seconds while they're blinking red moving around and re-centering your aim to be sure you get the next hit as soon as you can.
I don't think you realize how the enemy's position and activity can change just as well as your aim - having time between swings doesn't make it any easier to aim your hits.
Why would you not be moving in 1.9? That's a ludicrous, unfounded assumption. You strafe left and right, hit people up and down, jump for crits, back up, use e-pearl, etc.
1.9 might lower the clickspeed skill cap (though now there's a timing skillcap), but it increases the skillcap in other areas, such as aiming and timing, as well as adding new areas for skill like offhand usage.
I play this game for pvp, and prefer 1.12, as do most of the players I associate with.
Timing is also essential in 1.7 but not as slow paced as it is in 1.9. Aiming is significantly less important and so is movement.
If you actually played the game for pvp you would see why it is horrible and none of the top players will ever switch to 1.9