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~ Archer Kit: Improvements | Kohi Archer
You just copy pasted the velt’s archer but without any golden apples?
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Aogiri_Eto wrote

You just copy pasted the velt’s archer but without any golden apples?


No not at all.
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Aogiri_Eto wrote

You just copy pasted the velt’s archer but without any golden apples?


Didn't even know the kit of their archer.
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-1
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It's called "archer" for a reason, we don't need melee, so -1 to the pickaxe thing.
Regen is a bad idea, people would simply run and avoid fighting just to heal and waste your time. Also, high elo fights would last even longer, which isn't good.
I don't know if you forgot to mention it, but I'm assuming you'd also get rid of speed at this point, which would be horrible and would make archer too similiar to UHC or Iron. You need speed in archer. If this isn't the case, just ignore me here xd.

What I would actually change is bow boosting damage, you need to be punished for it, it's too cheap and cheesy. As of now, losing half a heart is absolutely worth it, since you will deal way more damage anyway, unless you get too close (which rarely happens nowadays). If you can master this you can actually land every single shot while doing it, and you'd also become an unpredictable moving target for your opponent. I think this needs to be nerfed, or disabled if possible. It just doesn't feel right and it allows people to force short-range fights in a long-range kit way too easily.
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Skillapp wrote

DaBakerMC wrote...


I mean delete archer
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I think it is fine how it is.
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-1
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-1 shit idea
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I think there should be no punch on the bow, speed 1, regular damage (not based on distance),leather armor, and no regen. I am neutral on a single ender pearl, but no more than 1.

For those who say things like, "the damage is too random," and "3 hits is too quick," I have actually bothered to do some calculations.
According to my understanding of damage mechanics, player health is very precise, but it gets rounded up to the next health point (half heart) on the visible health bar. A fully charged arrow does 6-10 health points (3-5 hearts). Leather armor reduces damage by 28%. This makes the arrows do from 4.32-7.2 health points (2.16 to 3.6 hearts). I came up with all the combinations of random bow damage that kill in 3 hits, and all the combinations of 4 hits that don't kill (which would mean it takes 5). 5 full charged bow hits will always be enough to kill. The chance of a 3-hit kill is 9.6%. The chance of a 4-hit kill is 84.8%. The chance of a 5-hit kill is 5.6%. The damage is not too random. Also, a lot of the time someone takes 3 or 5 hits, the killer will not have taken as many hits, so it isn't what decided the match. Another thing is, if you avoid getting hit, you take no damage, not any random amount.

Another reason to use the regular damage is that new players will have no idea the damage is based on distance. I have seen clueless 1400s try to get close and they do little damage, because of the distance based damage formula that they are probably not aware of.
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Jamison5 wrote

I think there should be no punch on the bow, speed 1, regular damage (not based on distance),leather armor, and no regen. I am neutral on a single ender pearl, but no more than 1.

For those who say things like, "the damage is too random," and "3 hits is too quick," I have actually bothered to do some calculations.
According to my understanding of damage mechanics, player health is very precise, but it gets rounded up to the next health point (half heart) on the visible health bar. A fully charged arrow does 6-10 health points (3-5 hearts). Leather armor reduces damage by 28%. This makes the arrows do from 4.32-7.2 health points (2.16 to 3.6 hearts). I came up with all the combinations of random bow damage that kill in 3 hits, and all the combinations of 4 hits that don't kill (which would mean it takes 5). 5 full charged bow hits will always be enough to kill. The chance of a 3-hit kill is 9.6%. The chance of a 4-hit kill is 84.8%. The chance of a 5-hit kill is 5.6%. The damage is not too random. Also, a lot of the time someone takes 3 or 5 hits, the killer will not have taken as many hits, so it isn't what decided the match. Another thing is, if you avoid getting hit, you take no damage, not any random amount.

Another reason to use the regular damage is that new players will have no idea the damage is based on distance. I have seen clueless 1400s try to get close and they do little damage, because of the distance based damage formula that they are probably not aware of.




First of all, thank you bro for typing and answering my thread. You as a good bow player understand me why we need this kinda of archer. Thanks for reply and I totally agree with that too. Also there should be regen in this kit :)
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THICCosby wrote

It's called "archer" for a reason, we don't need melee, so -1 to the pickaxe thing.
Regen is a bad idea, people would simply run and avoid fighting just to heal and waste your time. Also, high elo fights would last even longer, which isn't good.
I don't know if you forgot to mention it, but I'm assuming you'd also get rid of speed at this point, which would be horrible and would make archer too similiar to UHC or Iron. You need speed in archer. If this isn't the case, just ignore me here xd.

What I would actually change is bow boosting damage, you need to be punished for it, it's too cheap and cheesy. As of now, losing half a heart is absolutely worth it, since you will deal way more damage anyway, unless you get too close (which rarely happens nowadays). If you can master this you can actually land every single shot while doing it, and you'd also become an unpredictable moving target for your opponent. I think this needs to be nerfed, or disabled if possible. It just doesn't feel right and it allows people to force short-range fights in a long-range kit way too easily.



Quick reply for you too. I know that you are good in archer, and I respect your opinon (because u know a lot of archer then this randoms).
I forgot to type there should be no speed in this kit / possibly speed if community agrees, but it would make kit so bad. Natural regen should be in this for 1 reason, bow does 2-4 hearts damage (i think, don't know) so to not last short, this would be cool to add.
The thing you typed about "Also, high elo fights would last even longer, which isn't good." - No, this wouldn't been possible with damage that bow deals, even if it was possible player fight can't last longer then 3 minutes (probably not longer). There should not be punch on bow, I'm sorry because the thread is full of mistakes but this kit would be just bow (infinty arrows), full leather armor and that's it.

Thanks for reply anyway, I respect good archer players opinion, not some 1400's.

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Big thanks to @Nicosby & @Jamison5 about explaining this thread idea deeper.
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KEERQQ wrote

THICCosby wrote...




Quick reply for you too. I know that you are good in archer, and I respect your opinon (because u know a lot of archer then this randoms).
I forgot to type there should be no speed in this kit / possibly speed if community agrees, but it would make kit so bad. Natural regen should be in this for 1 reason, bow does 2-4 hearts damage (i think, don't know) so to not last short, this would be cool to add.
The thing you typed about "Also, high elo fights would last even longer, which isn't good." - No, this wouldn't been possible with damage that bow deals, even if it was possible player fight can't last longer then 3 minutes (probably not longer). There should not be punch on bow, I'm sorry because the thread is full of mistakes but this kit would be just bow (infinty arrows), full leather armor and that's it.

Thanks for reply anyway, I respect good archer players opinion, not some 1400's.



Well then it would be like Iron but with shit armour and infinite arrows, wouldn't it?
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THICCosby wrote

KEERQQ wrote...



Well then it would be like Iron but with shit armour and infinite arrows, wouldn't it?



I don't think so, because it would count with global elo.
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KEERQQ wrote

THICCosby wrote...




I don't think so, because it would count with global elo.

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THICCosby wrote

It's called "archer" for a reason, we don't need melee, so -1 to the pickaxe thing.
Regen is a bad idea, people would simply run and avoid fighting just to heal and waste your time. Also, high elo fights would last even longer, which isn't good.
I don't know if you forgot to mention it, but I'm assuming you'd also get rid of speed at this point, which would be horrible and would make archer too similiar to UHC or Iron. You need speed in archer. If this isn't the case, just ignore me here xd.

What I would actually change is bow boosting damage, you need to be punished for it, it's too cheap and cheesy. As of now, losing half a heart is absolutely worth it, since you will deal way more damage anyway, unless you get too close (which rarely happens nowadays). If you can master this you can actually land every single shot while doing it, and you'd also become an unpredictable moving target for your opponent. I think this needs to be nerfed, or disabled if possible. It just doesn't feel right and it allows people to force short-range fights in a long-range kit way too easily.
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As a standalone kit, I think archer is in a pretty good place right now. It doesn't represent bow PvP as a whole well though (UHC probably does this better), however it is one of our longtime most popular kits.

If Archer were to be changed, I would support removing the ranged damage. I personally feel that Archer ladder neglects short-mid range fighting too much now. The changes to only giving people one pearl combined with the range damage means you have to long-range bow in every fight. I (being nostalgic and all) liked it better before where you could win using a variety of styles rather than just "out-dodge your opponent," but I also don't play a ton anymore.

I am definitely against adding pickaxe melee to the ladder though, keep that away from archer! ;p

Anyway, I'd like to hear from top Archer players right now how they think the kit could be improved, so keep posting!
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THICCosby wrote


What I would actually change is bow boosting damage, you need to be punished for it, it's too cheap and cheesy. As of now, losing half a heart is absolutely worth it, since you will deal way more damage anyway, unless you get too close (which rarely happens nowadays). If you can master this you can actually land every single shot while doing it, and you'd also become an unpredictable moving target for your opponent. I think this needs to be nerfed, or disabled if possible. It just doesn't feel right and it allows people to force short-range fights in a long-range kit way too easily.

This is an interesting point, but wouldn't you say the kit is super balanced against short range right now anyway? I've never been a huge fan of bow boosting, but it almost seems like the only way not to have to take a long range fight now.
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Ny_ wrote

As a standalone kit, I think archer is in a pretty good place right now. It doesn't represent bow PvP as a whole well though (UHC probably does this better), however it is one of our longtime most popular kits.

If Archer were to be changed, I would support removing the ranged damage. I personally feel that Archer ladder neglects short-mid range fighting too much now. The changes to only giving people one pearl combined with the range damage means you have to long-range bow in every fight. I (being nostalgic and all) liked it better before where you could win using a variety of styles rather than just "out-dodge your opponent," but I also don't play a ton anymore.

I am definitely against adding pickaxe melee to the ladder though, keep that away from archer! ;p

Anyway, I'd like to hear from top Archer players right now how they think the kit could be improved, so keep posting!


Thanks for reply.
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