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Compensation for false bans?
Posted on 11 February 2015 - 08:40 AM
So I've gotten banned falsely around 3 times, unbanned after each time and it's quite annoying since everyone trashtalks you and rumors starts spreading etc so I was just wondering if there could be any sort of compensation implemented for false bans?It wouldn't have to be a big one, just 1 week donator or something that makes up for the false ban.
Coloured name would also work or just ELO wipe if anyone wanted to reset their ELO.
Posted on 11 February 2015 - 09:04 AM
We are always at the complete discretion of who and who cannot play on our servers. If we ban you for whatever reason it is our entitlement. Whatever we say goes. GRANTED this is not how I want the image to be. We make mistakes, I'm very confused how you have been banned 3 different times.Can you explain what happened to me each time and who was involved in the ban?
As far as compensation goes we cannot. Simply put if we did it for one we would have to do it for all. It's the same thing with donator transfers.
Posted on 11 February 2015 - 12:21 PM
MasterGberry wrote
We are always at the complete discretion of who and who cannot play on our servers. If we ban you for whatever reason it is our entitlement. Whatever we say goes. GRANTED this is not how I want the image to be. We make mistakes, I'm very confused how you have been banned 3 different times.
Can you explain what happened to me each time and who was involved in the ban?
As far as compensation goes we cannot. Simply put if we did it for one we would have to do it for all. It's the same thing with donator transfers.
Can you explain what happened to me each time and who was involved in the ban?
As far as compensation goes we cannot. Simply put if we did it for one we would have to do it for all. It's the same thing with donator transfers.
It feels like the moderators have been banning people for just personal reasons.
I feel this way because I, personally got banned before 5 minutes after beating a mod in a ranked for "aimbot" and as expected the answer was "I looked through my evidence and it was insufficient, unbanned"
Many of my friends has gotten banned by mods too, and the answer has always been "I lost my evidence" or "my evidence is insufficient" or they have submitted evidence that doesn't look close to hacks if you slow the video down to 0.25 speed.
Here's a example of when the evidence doesn't look anything like hacks : https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/18793 https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24607
A example of a mod saying their proof was insufficient : https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/22130
More examples : https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24379 https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24345
I'm not trying to bash your staff, infact I can't complain about your staff since there are a lot of servers where the mods dont even need proof, its literally the mods words vs the players words at kohi for example which leads to very bias bans.
It was just a suggestion, it's fine if compensations doesn't work and a few days of being banned is not a big deal, it's more about the trashtalk you instantly get directed towards you and I got kicked from my faction on kohi for a badlion ban, it's obviously not the whole world tho, it was not a complaint just a suggestion.
TLDR : Feels like staff ban for "hacks" when they know the other person isn't hacking and just say that they lost their evidence.
Posted on 11 February 2015 - 08:23 PM
Balditron wrote
It was just a suggestion, it's fine if compensations doesn't work and a few days of being banned is not a big deal, it's more about the trashtalk you instantly get directed towards you and I got kicked from my faction on kohi for a badlion ban, it's obviously not the whole world tho, it was not a complaint just a suggestion.
Lmfao. Sorry had to just point out how hypocritical that bold'ed part is.
I'm interested in your ban appeals. Not everyone elses. What I'm concerned is if it's the same mod again and again.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 10:58 AM
MasterGberry wrote
Balditron wrote...
Lmfao. Sorry had to just point out how hypocritical that bold'ed part is.
I'm interested in your ban appeals. Not everyone elses. What I'm concerned is if it's the same mod again and again.
I wouldn't really consider that hypocritical, it was just to point out and give a bit of reasoning to why false bans are annoying and should have some sort of compensation.
But I guess that you can't give constructive criticism on these forums, oh well.
Also, if the court judge put someone in jail without any reason at all and just say "oh well I looked onto my evidence and it was inconclusive and you are now free to go"
and then when the judge gets the question "can you at least show us the evidence you had" and then refuses to give it, wouldn't that be kind of weird?
The victim who got jail time for something they didn't do would of course get some sort of compensation, since they'd probably be fired from their work if their boss / director found out that they had committed a crime. I doubt the judge would've laughed at them and said "do you know how hypocritical you sound" after giving someone false jail time…
Btw, I noticed that there are certain players that are very hard to get banned, this : https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24928 is what I call obvious ELO manipulation, however it was clearly stated that "No, we'd rather have a cheater here than someone falsely banned" since there seemed to be some doubt if it truly was Plexsy using the account FPS or his friend.
What doesn't make sense to me is that some mods say "No, we'd rather have a cheater here than someone falsely banned" but in the meanwhile there's been a bunch of false bans that I linked to you that no one seems to, sorry for the language, give two fucks about. There's been reports on staff members that ban people and then have "insufficient evidence" or "lost their evidence" but no one seems to take those seriously. I honestly think that some bans is 100% personal since mine for example was 5 minutes after beating the staff member who banned me in a ranked match and then apparently the staffs evidence was "insufficient".
If a mod decides to ban someone they should think carefully if the person they're banning is really hacking, IMO.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 11:18 AM
MasterGberry wrote
Balditron wrote...
Lmfao. Sorry had to just point out how hypocritical that bold'ed part is.
I'm interested in your ban appeals. Not everyone elses. What I'm concerned is if it's the same mod again and again.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 01:40 PM
Balditron wrote
MasterGberry wrote...
I wouldn't really consider that hypocritical, it was just to point out and give a bit of reasoning to why false bans are annoying and should have some sort of compensation.
But I guess that you can't give constructive criticism on these forums, oh well.
Also, if the court judge put someone in jail without any reason at all and just say "oh well I looked onto my evidence and it was inconclusive and you are now free to go"
and then when the judge gets the question "can you at least show us the evidence you had" and then refuses to give it, wouldn't that be kind of weird?
The victim who got jail time for something they didn't do would of course get some sort of compensation, since they'd probably be fired from their work if their boss / director found out that they had committed a crime. I doubt the judge would've laughed at them and said "do you know how hypocritical you sound" after giving someone false jail time…
Btw, I noticed that there are certain players that are very hard to get banned, this : https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24928 is what I call obvious ELO manipulation, however it was clearly stated that "No, we'd rather have a cheater here than someone falsely banned" since there seemed to be some doubt if it truly was Plexsy using the account FPS or his friend.
What doesn't make sense to me is that some mods say "No, we'd rather have a cheater here than someone falsely banned" but in the meanwhile there's been a bunch of false bans that I linked to you that no one seems to, sorry for the language, give two fucks about. There's been reports on staff members that ban people and then have "insufficient evidence" or "lost their evidence" but no one seems to take those seriously. I honestly think that some bans is 100% personal since mine for example was 5 minutes after beating the staff member who banned me in a ranked match and then apparently the staffs evidence was "insufficient".
If a mod decides to ban someone they should think carefully if the person they're banning is really hacking, IMO.
While it still holds true that the staff team wants to be careful for every single ban, it doesn't mean they don't make mistakes. Shit happens, get over it.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 03:01 PM
You don't seem to understand what I said.I said that there's staff members saying that they'd rather have cheaters playing than giving out false bans, meanwhile there's mods banning people and I'm not talking about a one time mistake, there's been particular staff members who's banned players without it looking close to hacks or just say "I lost my evidence" or "I looked back at the evidence and you're not hacking"
This post was not made to bash bad lion's staff members, my original intention with this was to ask for any sort of compensation if false bans occurs, however MasterGberry asked me
when these false bans occurred so I linked him some false bans within the week and I gave him so arguments to why there should be some sort of compensation for false bans and better regulations when you ban someone, if it's too hard to see if the person really is hacking or just is good, then you honestly shouldn't ban the person.
"get over it" There was once a staff member called shortbus316, he started banning all the people he lost to without any reason, this is what I think some mods do, except they say "oh my evidence is insufficient" and then later unban the player.
I don't want to start any kind of flame war here, this is just me expressing my thoughts and keep in mind it was a suggestion from the beginning, my intention wasn't to start a argument or bashing the staff.
@Hivlik
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 03:18 PM
I'm not saying that a minecraft server should be like a real life court, what I'm saying is that its POSSIBLE that some bans are bias and that staff uses different arguments depending on which player the case is about, for example when Plexsy / FPS was obviously elo manipulating, he said in his defense that "me and my friend were playing and we thought that we'd 1v1" or something like that.I said that they shouldn't go for the excuse because they found an IP match between FPS / Plexsy, it made no sense why he'd duel his friend in a ranked match instead of a /duel, what the staff said was "we'd rather have a cheater playing than a player falsely banned" in plexsys defense.
In the same time there's been a BUNCH of false bans and some of the evidence look no where close to hacks if you slow the video down to 0.25.
Badlion's staff are saying different things and since its quite annoying to get falsely banned I said that it should be made more clear that "we'd rather have a cheater playing than a player falsely banned"
Sorry for all these text walls.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 03:28 PM
Not sure if I want to get involved with this but my friend got banned for "triggerbot" then unbanned for the same reason.. "lost proof" Not going to say any mods name but people do make mistakes. And another incident with my other friend z3ro got banned and unbanned "reviewed proof, and didn't look like you were hacking".https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24345
https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24379
I thought you had to be 100% sure if he was hacking..
But anyways didn't want to make any more problems
bi
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 03:38 PM
The mod you are talking about got demoted already. I don't know what exactly happened but he got mod again, so I assume he apologized and won't do it again.Posted on 12 February 2015 - 07:40 PM
Considering I've been mentioned in this regarding a previous ban and appeal I had afterwards, I thought I'd address this. When I was banned for hacked client, and during the appeal process, it did occur to me that this could have been bias against me, something I have a lot of experience with on other networks. But I quickly disregarded that. Cavasi (The mod who punished me) has nothing against me as far as I know. I don't know Cavasi, I've never interacted with Cavasi, and I see no reason whatsoever for Cavasi to ban me for anything other than thinking I was hacking. Maybe Cavasi isn't good at determining hackers, maybe Cavasi just made a mistake and it appeared I was hacking. It frankly doesn't matter.One idea is that in all appeals that are overturned due to the evidence not showing conclusive hacking, is to still link the footage. If it was required for staff to show footage of the evidence that led to the original punishment, for if it's absolutely ridiculous then there is more of a case for the falsely punished to make that it was an act of bias or abuse.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 09:12 PM
Do we really still need to be discussing the "Cavasi" issue if any, just askingPosted on 12 February 2015 - 09:34 PM
Balditron wrote
MasterGberry wrote...
I wouldn't really consider that hypocritical, it was just to point out and give a bit of reasoning to why false bans are annoying and should have some sort of compensation.
But I guess that you can't give constructive criticism on these forums, oh well. I wasn't saying what you said or what they did was hypocritical. It was a jab at the fact that every other person on Kohi cheats
Also, if the court judge put someone in jail without any reason at all and just say "oh well I looked onto my evidence and it was inconclusive and you are now free to go"
and then when the judge gets the question "can you at least show us the evidence you had" and then refuses to give it, wouldn't that be kind of weird?
The victim who got jail time for something they didn't do would of course get some sort of compensation, since they'd probably be fired from their work if their boss / director found out that they had committed a crime. I doubt the judge would've laughed at them and said "do you know how hypocritical you sound" after giving someone false jail time… This is not a court system. There also is not thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars in discussion. That is when it comes to the point of compensation, time lost from work, money wasted on the law suit, etc. That is not the case here. Everyone is a volunteer including the developers and administrators.
Btw, I noticed that there are certain players that are very hard to get banned, this : https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24928 is what I call obvious ELO manipulation, however it was clearly stated that "No, we'd rather have a cheater here than someone falsely banned" since there seemed to be some doubt if it truly was Plexsy using the account FPS or his friend. The mod took the appropriate action. 3 matches is not really enough to condone someone for ELO manipulation unless the IPs are lined up. This is a tricky area and it is better to be safe than sorry
What doesn't make sense to me is that some mods say "No, we'd rather have a cheater here than someone falsely banned" but in the meanwhile there's been a bunch of false bans that I linked to you that no one seems to, sorry for the language, give two fucks about. There's been reports on staff members that ban people and then have "insufficient evidence" or "lost their evidence" but no one seems to take those seriously. I honestly think that some bans is 100% personal since mine for example was 5 minutes after beating the staff member who banned me in a ranked match and then apparently the staffs evidence was "insufficient". I am not aware of this being a problem, and I know that ginie fired Cavasi specifically for this reason. If it is becoming a problem it will be dealt with. I will start poking around the ban appeal section a bit more like I used to.
If a mod decides to ban someone they should think carefully if the person they're banning is really hacking, IMO.I whole heartidly agree. Fun fact is that I am tempted to completely disable the /report command. It has literally become a joke, about 10-20% of our reports are accurate. I have not had the time to program the false report system to punish people who are falsely reporting people because they got their fucking asses kicked because they are trash. Pisses me off when I see people blaming everyone but themselves when they are actually at fault
Balditron wrote
I'm not saying that a minecraft server should be like a real life court, what I'm saying is that its POSSIBLE that some bans are bias and that staff uses different arguments depending on which player the case is about, for example when Plexsy / FPS was obviously elo manipulating, he said in his defense that "me and my friend were playing and we thought that we'd 1v1" or something like that. If someone wants to play with their friend there is this awesome thing called /duel, one of the OG features on Badlion PotPvP
I said that they shouldn't go for the excuse because they found an IP match between FPS / Plexsy, it made no sense why he'd duel his friend in a ranked match instead of a /duel, what the staff said was "we'd rather have a cheater playing than a player falsely banned" in plexsys defense. Read below
In the same time there's been a BUNCH of false bans and some of the evidence look no where close to hacks if you slow the video down to 0.25.
Badlion's staff are saying different things and since its quite annoying to get falsely banned I said that it should be made more clear that "we'd rather have a cheater playing than a player falsely banned" You got a quote of that? If so please provide it.
Sorry for all these text walls.
I said that they shouldn't go for the excuse because they found an IP match between FPS / Plexsy, it made no sense why he'd duel his friend in a ranked match instead of a /duel, what the staff said was "we'd rather have a cheater playing than a player falsely banned" in plexsys defense. Read below
In the same time there's been a BUNCH of false bans and some of the evidence look no where close to hacks if you slow the video down to 0.25.
Badlion's staff are saying different things and since its quite annoying to get falsely banned I said that it should be made more clear that "we'd rather have a cheater playing than a player falsely banned" You got a quote of that? If so please provide it.
Sorry for all these text walls.
Hope I answered ur thoughts/discussions above. Please do remember that we are not machines (only GCheat is), and that we are humans. People make mistakes, but there is a fine line to how many mistakes someone can continue to make until we step in.
EDIT: Nvm I just reviewed the point trading myself. Definitely elo manipulation. Having freekkiller fix it https://www.badlion.net/forum/thread/24928/post/120053#120053
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 09:36 PM
@WarningsThere is a reason that the appeal process exists. Every single one of those people on the staff page is still human, and every single one of them can do something wrong. Think of all of the valid bans that come out of this server. With a number like that, there is bound to be a mistake every now and then. Similarly, it might be true that certain mods make more mistakes than other; it might be that they got unlucky or even didn't pay close enough attention, but at the same time, you have to consider how many bans each mod rolls out compared to the number of false bans they make respectively. Cavasi may have made a few mistakes, but at the same time, he's one of the more active moderators on badlion.
All that said, I'm not even opposed to your suggestion; I like the idea. But that's really not what this thread is for anymore, lol. A
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 09:55 PM
Hivlik wrote
@Warnings
There is a reason that the appeal process exists. Every single one of those people on the staff page is still human, and every single one of them can do something wrong. Think of all of the valid bans that come out of this server. With a number like that, there is bound to be a mistake every now and then. Similarly, it might be true that certain mods make more mistakes than other; it might be that they got unlucky or even didn't pay close enough attention, but at the same time, you have to consider how many bans each mod rolls out compared to the number of false bans they make respectively. Cavasi may have made a few mistakes, but at the same time, he's one of the more active moderators on badlion.
All that said, I'm not even opposed to your suggestion; I like the idea. But that's really not what this thread is for anymore, lol. A
There is a reason that the appeal process exists. Every single one of those people on the staff page is still human, and every single one of them can do something wrong. Think of all of the valid bans that come out of this server. With a number like that, there is bound to be a mistake every now and then. Similarly, it might be true that certain mods make more mistakes than other; it might be that they got unlucky or even didn't pay close enough attention, but at the same time, you have to consider how many bans each mod rolls out compared to the number of false bans they make respectively. Cavasi may have made a few mistakes, but at the same time, he's one of the more active moderators on badlion.
All that said, I'm not even opposed to your suggestion; I like the idea. But that's really not what this thread is for anymore, lol. A
Ye, my intention wasn't to make this thread about what it is now.
Also many seem to be misunderstanding, this thread was not directed towards a particular staff member at all, infact Cavasi is usually great at kicking campers and muting, it was mostly directed to the staff in general and ye in the end it was just me saying that I thought some of the staff was bias.
Posted on 12 February 2015 - 11:50 PM
Balditron wrote
Hivlik wrote...
Ye, my intention wasn't to make this thread about what it is now.
Also many seem to be misunderstanding, this thread was not directed towards a particular staff member at all, infact Cavasi is usually great at kicking campers and muting, it was mostly directed to the staff in general and ye in the end it was just me saying that I thought some of the staff was bias.
Then may I request a lock