Posted on 03 September 2015 - 02:36 AM
This is a very debatable topic that the UHC staff team have decided it isn't allowed, but I think muting someone could just be as bad. If you get killed by a hacker, then call them out in spec chat, he can't see that. However, what he can see is someone was muted for 'hackusation'. Therefore, if the guy he just killed gets muted for hackusation, it obviously means he was hackusating him and anyone with a brain cell should realise that. Also, the 'hacker' wouldn't be able to see if the guy was hackusating him, even if he dies soon after, because he'll only see the messages that were posted as soon as he died.If someone is hackusating them in the same chat; for example, the hacker and the guy got killed by him are in spec chat and the guy that got killed by him hackusates, then that is a hackusation offence. Another example, is if the guy that got killed by him goes 'Haha the hacker died!' that is also muteable because the hacker might see it, if he is Donator+ or Lion, the host won't know that so he/she should mute the hackusater.
Those are both sides of the argument and in my opinion are both hackusating (indirectly and directly). I would like to see if the rules would be changed or the hackusating rule would be made more complex or something or perhaps a stronger filter for hackusation for the developers to work on.
I'll tag some people, who might want to read this. # @sluttycow for the 'rule' part of it.
@MasterGberry @Archybot @SmellyPenguin for the stronger filter (read last sentence to save your time).
No rush, just a thought, I know the staff team is very busy, so I won't expect a reply for a bit, but I would like to hear your thoughts.
Thanks,
SportsFan
Posted on 03 September 2015 - 02:49 AM
The filter is good as is. I wouldn't want much to change with the way the filter system works. You do bring up a very valid argument which I hadn't personally considered. This topic has been debated quite thoroughly and for the sake of consistency throughout the network we decided to disallow hackusations. Your point is quite valid and I'd like to hear what some of the # think. The people who were most vocal during this discussion (at least that I recall) @LENAvision @trHowy @LobbsterBisque @Radical24Posted on 03 September 2015 - 03:23 AM
I was reading this and I too didn't think of some of your points. Your point about the hacker seeing the person getting muted for hackusations despite not seeing the person say it, is the strongest point. However, this applies only really applies to what I call "helpful hackusating - where a player would be calm about it and say something along the lines of "excuse me, host, I think X person is hacking" rather than the most common "WTF R U DUMB HE WAS HACKING" which doesn't help. On the other hand, if the player was to simply helpop alerting us of the potential hacker then I wouldn't have a problem with it.The main reason I was personally got muting for hackusations in spec chat was for consistency across the network. In my opinion, it is a bad idea to allow hackusating in one area and disallow it everywhere else, players will abuse it by witch hunting in chat or they may just assume you can hackusate anywhere which cause more problems.
Thank you for your post, I'd be willing to discuss the rule again with other senior hosts.
Posted on 03 September 2015 - 05:15 AM
Very valid point. My suggestion would be to mute for Toxic Behavior only in that specific situation rather than Hackusation. But I wouldn't be against not muting as a whole, but most of the time when someone hackusates in spec chat they would've hackusated in global chat if that was available for them. Toxic Behavior is a mute that is valid for any general reasons, so that should work. @sluttycowPosted on 03 September 2015 - 06:06 AM
Yeah maybe mute for something like that, that would work, good thought @Radical24Posted on 03 September 2015 - 08:11 AM
If you have time to talk in global chat/spec chat and call someone a hacker, then you have time to do /helpop player is hacking. You're trying to justify reasons for breaking the filter or breaking a rule by saying we're the reason it's more obvious.Posted on 03 September 2015 - 10:14 AM
Interesting that you don't seem too happy about my point then. I am not criticising the mods in anyway, I have never hackusated in public chat (look at my punishments) and I was just pointing out to what I have seen whilst playing UHC. I totally agree with you that bypassing the filter and hackusating is wrong, but the reason you shouldn't hackusate is because it will make the hacker aware that somebody has noticed them. The hacker can't see the spec chat till he dies (if he is D+ or Lion) and can only see global chat and punishment notifications and if he sees that the person he killed, hackusated him, then he/she (if he/she is smart) will stop hacking. @LobbsterBisquePosted on 03 September 2015 - 10:18 AM
@RealSportsFan sorry if I came off harsher than I intended. I know you're just providing another viewpoint.To argue that though, I've seen people hackusate in spec chat in the past. Another person in spec chat, who was also in a call with the person told them, and the person in the game started calling the person in spec chat out about it. I know this is a rare instance, but it can happen. That's why I think it's just easier to mute for it.
Posted on 03 September 2015 - 11:51 AM
Yes it's easier to mute, but at the same time, will make the hacker aware. Therefore, I agree with @Radical24 because they get a mute punishment, but it isn't as obvious because if they're muted for toxic behaviour or filter bypass (could be another reason) then the hacker won't know if they were hackusating or not.@LobbsterBisque
Therefore, the rule should remain the same, hackusating in spec chat isn't allowed, but hosts will mute them for toxic behaviour or filter bypass to make it less obvious they were hacking. Opinions?
# @sluttycow
Posted on 03 September 2015 - 12:15 PM
This would need further discussion with the seniorhosts before it became a thing but we thank you for your opinion.Posted on 03 September 2015 - 01:13 PM
hackusating* lol, didn't notice beforePosted on 04 September 2015 - 12:53 AM
Or…OrWe could just make it so hackusating mutes on uhc servers aren't broadcasted. Spooooooky amirite.
@Archybot Could we do that. Similar to automutes where it doesn't broadcast the mute.
Posted on 04 September 2015 - 02:02 PM
Oh wow. Slutty had a good idea for once! ;)Posted on 04 September 2015 - 02:15 PM
Automatically DeletedPosted on 19 September 2015 - 05:15 AM
Ummm @ArchybotPosted on 20 September 2015 - 12:20 PM
Would the unbroadcasted mute show on punishments?Posted on 21 September 2015 - 12:23 PM
I think it should be so that it doesn't broadcast in global chat, only spec chat?Posted on 22 September 2015 - 02:14 AM
And yes should show on punishments :PPosted on 22 September 2015 - 02:14 AM
And yes should show on punishments :P