Posted on 13 December 2015 - 10:19 PM

I want to start by saying that I really am enjoying archer this season. I think the ladder itself is the best it's ever been. The damage scaling by distance has worked really well, and I'm glad you brought back the old three shot kills at a distance. The 3 enderpearls are good for fighting against campers, but not too many like there used to be (16). I think the speed 1 is a very nice compromise between those arguing for speed 2 and those arguing for no speed. Lastly, I'm really glad that you kept the punch, I think it's somewhat of a staple of the ladder, and it works really well in it.

Now, my complaint. For the each of past few seasons, we've seen a bunch of new maps added in with the old ones. I felt like this was a good system, as generally the worse maps always got removed and the better ones were kept. It also helped keep things fresh from season to season. This season however, you completely overhauled all of the maps. It seems that there is not a single map from a previous season in archer (this may be true for all ladders, I haven't played them much). I don't think this is much of a problem for most other ladders, the type of map usually doesn't matter in pot maps.

But it seems like a direction was actively taken this season in archer maps, towards smaller maps with more structures. It doesn't take much analysis to figure out that most archer regulars prefer big, flat maps. And I understand that flat can be boring; you can only make a huge flat arena so many different ways. However, I feel that some maps have far too many structures, which can make for obnoxious fights, even with enderpearls. In particular, I'm thinking of the flower map and the snow map with the cabin. I think far too many maps this season provide too much cover, and therefore force close/mid-range bow. Even some maps without structures, like the dirt one with the bright green lake, and the green clay one with the two big hills, provide far too much natural cover with the odd terrain, which basically results in excessive jump-shotting and close range on hills. And onto the size of the maps: many people I've spoken to and I agree that this season's maps put too much emphasis on mid-range bow. The damage scaling pretty much makes close range useless for most purposes, which is good. However, the max damage distance is something like 40-50 blocks, which is more mid than long range. This seems to be about the range that most fights end up occurring at, mostly because of the size of the maps.

Another issue which sort of goes along with this, is the lack of variety. Not just are many of these maps the same type - small, with a lot of cover - but there are very few maps this season compared to the past. I get that you wanted to make everything fresh by getting rid of old maps, although I think that there is merit to keeping the better maps from last season around. I would rather play a mix of 30 newer and older maps than just 10-15 new ones again and again.

I think that what you should do, considering all of this, is you should take some of the bigger, more long-range oriented maps from last season, and include them in this one. A lot of people would enjoy the increased variety, and a lot of archer regulars would be happy to be able to do real long range again.

Posted on 13 December 2015 - 10:20 PM

+juan

Posted on 13 December 2015 - 10:21 PM

+111

Posted on 13 December 2015 - 10:22 PM

+1
and that map where you can pearl up to the ceiling is fucking awful

Posted on 13 December 2015 - 10:51 PM

I personally don't like the current ladder at all

Posted on 13 December 2015 - 10:53 PM

The bow god doesn't like it :o

Posted on 13 December 2015 - 11:03 PM

what don't you like about it?

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 05:46 AM

Yeah I completly agree, there is a ton of people who just enderpearl to buildings in the maps, like the one you named with big flowers, and it's just annoying, doesn't take any skill at all and doesn't help you to practice.

And personally I prefer to play in the same flat map with long-range than playing in 50 different and creative short-mid range maps.

So yeah +1

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 05:53 AM

This would be a great step towards repairing the currently broken archer ladder. Maps suited for bow pvp and maps for sword pvp are two very different things.

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 06:53 AM

@Hivlik

Also ++1 :)

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 09:28 AM

Speed 1: couldn't care less. It's nothing special, but I play exactly the same with speed 1 and everybody else is seemingly much worse at long range dodging. It makes the ladder easier for me, but changes how exciting/skill based the ladder is very little.

Punch: good

Pearls + range based damage: this is the biggest problem. I'll be mostly forming my opinions as I write this because I haven't formally written/organized them yet, so this might be a little bit convoluted. Hopefully you can still keep up. Let's get into it:

For the most part, long distance is just fine. If you're a good archer and not a scumbag and the other guy's a good archer and not a scumbag you can actually have some pretty good fights. But in any other case (and with the current maps) that's not the fight you'll have. The fight will just about entirely revolve around who can get a small lead and then hit trade at short range. Considering the pearl timer and the fact that you only have three pearls, AND that shooting somebody as they pearl in for short distance is useless, (due to distance based damage) it's hard to reward somebody for staying long range. It's a huge risk, and everybody knows that. And the short range bow fights that people have in this ladder are so. fucking. boring. It's takes like 15 hits to take somebody down to 0 health. And again, considering the damage is range based, it hugely rewards somebody using the uhc 'sweat strafe' and nullifies the effectiveness of the dark rust. It's not real practice; it's not realistic in the slightest. It rewards camping, rushing, and playing in a totally different way than is effective in a normal bow fight. Damage based on range was a good idea in theory - it rewarded those who wanted to stay long range and punished 'bow spammers' as mastergberry called them. But that's actually not how it works. Because in range based damage it doesn't punish the guy who wants to go for short range - it encourages him to go short range, because it entirely nullifies his opponent's strong point and gives him no way to defend himself besides pearling away. And if he's out of pearls, which is so often the case, game over.

I'm not sure if I made my point, but /rant

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 09:35 AM

+1

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 05:54 PM

+1 really dislike all the structures

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 08:06 PM

Any chance we could get some sort of input from a higher staff or someone from the mapmaking team?

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 08:36 PM

Some of the maps are pretty bad ; notably the one with two green clay hills. There is literally no flat corridors to shoot, it descends into constant jumpshot, camp, pearl, short range wars.

Also idk but sometimes the long range arrows are weird. Like I did 6 hearts to a guy in one hit today and it wasn't even a really long shot, the map wasnt particularly large.

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 08:38 PM

Agreed, that green hill map is just awful in every respect.

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 10:00 PM

ty for saying this, i agree completely. My personal preference would be to have speed 2 back, but that's because I thought the more fast-paced matches were more fun.

Posted on 14 December 2015 - 10:17 PM

I've yet to find an old map in any of the ladders, and all archer maps I've found have been melee-oriented. The new maps aren't all bad, I've seen some pretty great ones, but the old maps were mostly great for archer. They weren't totally flat, they just had few obstacles and made for interesting fights. Really my favorite (the only change I can really say I like) is the return of pearls to the kit.