Last edited on 29 May 2016 - 12:21 AM by MasterGberry
Update: All KB changes have been reverted due to lack of community support. Not planning on messing with any of it again.When you punch someone in the face do they jump up in the air and fly backwards?
Do they just fall down?
Do they take a step back?
Do they retaliate and punch you back?
What is knockback?
What is knockback?
Knockback is a term used in Minecraft for the amount of distance you travel backwards when being attacked. Knockback has a direct relationship with velocity, which has an indirect relationship with latency. In Minecraft you hear all the time about people getting little to no knockback depending on their ping. Other times you hear that people are getting a lot of knockback randomly on Badlion. There seems to be consistency issues.
The History of Knockback
Knockback is something that has been changed almost every season on Badlion. It is also something that has been changed in almost every game version release by Mojang (1.7/1.8/1.9 etc). There have been community patches made to modify the behavior of knockback. For instance one of the old bugs related to knockback was known as relog advantage. Many of the old time Badlion players remember this bug. It was the first modification the community (us) had made to knockback. We randomized the relog advantage instead of allowing the newer players to take less knockback than the older players. Later on other community patches were made that Badlion adapated to modify the knockback behavior, including patches by Overcast Network and Kohi.
The in depth analysis of Knockback
Today I sat down and worked out some math theory on the different parts of the knockback being performed on 1.7. I then looked at the math being done on the 1.9 version and compared the two. Looking over the two I noticed a few things:
1. In 1.7 the amount of knockback you take from a basic attack from any entity is based on how much damage you take (major factor)
2. In both 1.7 and 1.9 the amount of knockback you take depends on how far your opponent is standing from you (minor factor)
3. In 1.7 if your opponent was sprinting or using knockback it would apply a separate knockback formula based on some static values. These values would be applied directly to your motion instead of going through the same formula used by if you are attacked. In 1.9 they modified this function. They now use the same formula used for basic attacks to apply knockback instead of a separate formula (for living entities [arrows are different]).
4. Different Arena kits have different knockback modifiers. Different servers (UHC/SG/Arena/Practice) have different modifiers.
What has been changed with knockback in the past? today?
#1 and #3 have both been modified at Badlion due to the community patches and now our own custom patches.
We no longer determine knockback based on how much damage you take (#1). We have not done this for a long time from the Kohi patches we were using (this was way before Kohi joined Badlion).
#3 has been modified today though. We have adapted the 1.9 system into our 1.7 server software to use the proper formula when calculating knockback. We feel that this helps solve some of the consistency issues noted with knockback being very random. Arrows and other projectiles still apply knockback as they used to. Player attacks now all use the same formula whether sprint/knockback are being used to calculate or not.
We have also modified the knockback values we have configured (to replace #1) to be a bit higher to increase the knockback. Some people think our new knockback settings are perfect, some think they might be a little bit too high. We will probably end up tweaking the values a bit over the next week or so, but the major change in knockback is reworking how #3 works to be compliant with 1.9. We have made knockback settings consistent across the network (removing #4).
Where to try the new knockback
We hope that this will solve some of the knockback concerns across the network. The change is live as of now on NA Arena 1 and will be live on the rest of the network within 24 hours. Feel free to give some feedback in this thread after you have tried the new knockback on NA Arena 1. 24 hours from this post the changes should be live across the entire network.
Updates to new KB
5/24/16 - 10:05 PM EST: These changes apply to NA 1 Arena (will take time to go through the rest of the network). Knockback for arrows/rods has been reverted back to their previous behavior. The sword knockback has been left at the new values/configuration. Knockback and punch enchants have been fixed as well to properly work. W tapping has now been fixed as well.
5/25/16 - 4:38 PM EST: We are investigating TPS issues causing delayed KB and hit detection issues. Once the TPS issues are stabilized we will be analyzing knockback for further tweaking. We cannot get a good opinion on it while the TPS is not holding up properly.
5/27/16 - 10:37 AM EST: TPS issues have been resolved on EU Arena 1. Knockback has been lowered for non-potion kits on EU Arena 1 as well. Knockback has been slightly lowered for speed potion kits as well.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:02 PM
NICE!Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:03 PM
gg but I'm sure it will be impossible for everyone to be happy with the kb, some people just can't be pleased.Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:05 PM
FunkyFactions wrote
100% agreed. Today the knockback changes have been modified to feel like BadlionPvP back when it was just a 100 man server. It feels really smooth and I think people will like it too.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:09 PM
Time to test this, but I find there's at least a strategy to kill anyone regardless of their type of kb, it's just how hard it is. Kb isn't that big of a factor in pvp imo.Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:12 PM
Verillium wrote
It's not a huge factor in my opinion either. The issue was solving the inconsistencies of it mainly where people would randomly take more or less knockback.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:16 PM
I don't think i play enough to notice it :/Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:16 PM
coolPosted on 24 May 2016 - 03:17 PM
MasterGberry wrote
Today I sat down and worked out some math theory on the different parts of the knockback being performed on 1.7. I then looked at the math being done on the 1.9 versionn and compared the two. Looking over the two I noticed a few things:
major bug pls fix!!!!
Jokes aside, thank you for this and I'm curious to see how it will feel and what people think about it.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:31 PM
No wonder I felt like people took more kb with less damage, anyways thanks for the update!Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:35 PM
it's betterPosted on 24 May 2016 - 03:36 PM
While testing it It seems fine, although I'm getting rod issues which weren't there beforehandPosted on 24 May 2016 - 03:37 PM
Thank you SO MUCHPosted on 24 May 2016 - 03:47 PM
1573 wrote
Rods might have been altered due to the changes of non-projectiles. We will have to investigate this with time.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 03:56 PM
F I N A L L YPosted on 24 May 2016 - 03:58 PM
I tried to play a few games, I really like the new knockback I can only imagine it on eu.Posted on 24 May 2016 - 04:08 PM
Okay, first off, Ive played for a bit now, and I feel like the kb feels really smoothe. A lot like it did a year ago or two, back when I was playing on my friend's accounts at their houses. xDObviously, it's not going to satisfy everyone, and there will always be someone bitching about it. But overall, I'd like to say good job Gberry.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 04:12 PM
@MasterGberry Just tested the newish kb in a practical match (someone with 2.2k) and I feel like the rod pushes back too much. Rodding someone back already dealt a fair bit of kb, but now, someone hitting me with a rod pushes me back further than with a sword. Didn't test with bow, neither of us really bowed.Posted on 24 May 2016 - 04:15 PM
Verillium wrote
Noted. This might totally be possible. We will have to analyze the bow/rod knockback in more depth.
Posted on 24 May 2016 - 04:28 PM
MasterGberry wrote
1573 wrote...
Rods might have been altered due to the changes of non-projectiles. We will have to investigate this with time.
Sounds good boss