Posted on 25 February 2015 - 02:44 AM

I have potential to be biased so I won't say anything here, but OCN is discussing this right now

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 02:46 AM

I will make an official statement since I didn't even know this post was being created until after it was posted.

About OCN and my ban - I made Badlion Server originally so Badlion could practice OCN maps and HCF fights. About my OCN forum ban, it's literally a ban in my eyes as I already do not play on OCN as I get targetted because I'm not "famous" enough to get /nick. That was fine, I really don't even have time to play my own network, let alone another network. The reason OCN was removed from an allowed friendly network was only partially because of my ban, it was not the main driving force, but that's all I'll elaborate on since the original post takes care of all the other points.

I was banned for flaming - my ban was 100% deserved. I was defending badlion and gcheat from blatant liars, and caught one of them in a HUGE lie to the point he got random no names to start flaming me, and everyone around here knows I don't take shit from anyone. They even went to the length to threaten "whistleblowers" who were giving me logs to catch them in their lie. However, I was banned 10 days after the thread was closed, which upset me. I appealed, and they refused to unban me. I wanted everyone involved punished or no one, not just one side (badlion network typically punishes all involved). This is not the first time this has directly happened to me (Starfish vs Me/friends, where a senior staff who was an ex-starfish only punished people in an argument that weren't part of starfish, and left all the starfish members untouched) on OCN. This is the biased part, they only punish people who are unknown or they punish people who hurt/offend their friends.

About removing OCN's name from Badlion. For everything you do in life, there is positive or negative consequences. If you punish a famous person and they see it as unfair, they are going to talk down your server to their population. I was punished twice in what I saw as absolute bias. I forgave the first ban, but the second one was defending my network, my code/plugins, and my developers. The same network that is probably the biggest single FREE advertisement for OCN. Badlion has anywhere from 30,000 to 50,000 UNIQUE logins PER day. OCN had two ladders named after them, which means 30,000 to 50,000 people see OCN's name every day. Players were all allowed to freely recruit for OCN teams, organize games, and post videos of OCN on badlion. If I'm banned from the network I'm freely advertising for something I see as biased and unfair, I'm going to remove all that advertising and treat that network like we do most networks - no advertising, no videos, no recruitment.

I was banned for what I see as unfair, the consequence I hand out is removing OCN's advertisement. It looks bad on me and my network if I advertise a network whose senior staff throw me out for defending my network (the network giving out advertisement). I cannot endorse a network which in my eyes, don't have the same values as I do with my own network. Whether you agree with me or not, that's my decision, and this decision was made weeks ago.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 02:54 AM

@elijah Umm you aren't an ocn staff member…

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 02:57 AM

Hey, Reddit UHC mod here (Actually part of the Courtroom, but same deal pretty much). I'm not going to call you out on various problems, but I want to just explain a few things:

I'm not sure if it was you who made a post in the community post about what could be done to improve Badlion, but we did allow that post to go through because of it being in the community post. One other factor of your post being removed is that, well, it isn't closely tied to Reddit UHC in general. Badlion never really started as a PvP server for Reddit UHC (I think so, I don't play here often if at all). Sure, quite a few players bounce between networks but I'm sure there are a few players (like myself) who play on one specific network. The servers you mentioned were allowed to be posted because they were meant to specifically cater to Reddit UHC. Don't get me wrong, we are all in for having players from Badlion, Twitter, etc. play here, but this was one of the main reasons IronWolf was shut down, Hunter didn't think that it wasn't part of Reddit UHC anymore (there were many other reasons, but this is the most relevant to the topic here).

Also, this "bias" you are talking about isn't exactly true, it has happened before I will tell you that wholeheartedly, but we have done our best to prevent that from happening since then. Point 2 did happen a year ago, but there has not really been any bias against someone since then, as for point 3, that's kind of part of what we do in the courtroom. Part of our job is to argue, we don't necessarily try to be a dick about it as what you said, but rather we try to get the message through with our arguments. This is a current example of a controversial case where various arguments come into play. You could possibly referring to the server side things, but that's not totally in our control (the mods of the subreddit, that is).

I hope you realize that not every community is going to be perfect in terms of moderation and whatnot. There are going to be issues from time to time and frankly every server or network has been guilty of that. I'm not trying to hate on Badlion, Twitter, Eximius, etc. but I wanted to hopefully clear up some confusion with your post being deleted. I will be honest, I have not played much on Badlion if at all, heck, I made this account solely for telling you this stuff. Sorry if there are any misconceptions, hopefully this will be resolved soon and we will not have any sort of bickering in the future.

SIncerely,
silverteeth

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 03:03 AM

I'm under the same code of conduct (I'm not so stuck up as to believe that I'm important or anything, but my position means I can't say certain things)

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 03:07 AM

We already know about that post, but I'm not going to have it linked to avoid thread brigading. OCN's thread should be OCN players, badlion's thread should be badlion players.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 03:08 AM

I'd agree with archy on that

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 03:35 AM

I have a folder of TONS of them somewhere. Been saving ones people link me as well as one of my own. However, most of them are older, and a lot of the mods that were abusing their powers have since been demoted.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 03:46 AM

Your post on the UHC subreddit is due to it not being directly related to things that go on in our subreddit.

1. Just because a person remains anonymous, does not in any way mean that they are a coward. These people wish to remain anonymous, because depending on their opinion, will receive hate from our community. We are a strong community, but we are often rude to each other. Many of these people would rather not be publicly attacked just because of their opinion on matters. Our moderators do a great job at what they do, although you might not notice it. They do their best to enforce the rules.

2. I have very rarely seen anyone have their posts removed because of bias. A good majority of posts are usually allowed to stay, even the ones that have been posted multiple times. The only bias that comes, is from the community itself. If I post something, and xNestorio decides to post something very similar, there is a good chance that he will be upvoted much more than I due to the fact that everyone fanboys over him.

4. This is a direct attack at your post, meant almost exclusively for our subreddit. You say that your post had every right to be their, but BadLion does not directly affiliate itself with the /r/ultrahardcore community. Yes, many of our people play here, and yes you do host UHC's frequently. But, and there are only a few instances that are excepted from this, the pvp arenas are used to host their UHC's on. The arenas are for things like the pregame of the UHC, and when ops and their friends want to mess around on their own server. If you guys were to use the UBL, although I am almost positive you never will, then there is a good chance that your post might be able to stay. Next time you want to post something like this, just put it on our daily community post. There are usually 400+ comments on there in a day, so your post will be seen by many people.'

5. There is nothing our Moderators do wrong that they are in need of defending each other. You are probably once again referencing the fact that your post was removed. But did you stop to think for a second that maybe it is because the moderators have similar opinions? Yes that is possible, for two people to think the same way.

There is no reason for you to end you "positive relations" with the /r/ultrahardcore subreddit. It is petty and childish, over the fact that you are doing this after your post was removed. Our players will always play on your server, and your players will likely come to our subreddit eventually looking to get some actual variety in their games, instead of just doing the same vanilla game over again, where the only way you can win is if you get lucky when the border shrinks, or snowball and get 40+ golden apples/heads.

Try and excuse some of my grammar, I typed this rather fast.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 04:12 AM

@TheBananaMonster With this logic, EVERY single video that involves Badlion UHC should be removed because it "Does not

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 04:46 AM

Posted by one of the mods of /r/ultrahardcore

"All the examples he listed as being allowed are servers that host UHC on the subreddit. His post was about kits on kit UHC on badlion. He has a massive forum, as you have demonstrated, where he can ask for this feedback. We have removed posts identical to his in the past and the reason none of you ever kicked a stink about that is because they were not famous or well known. We have no problem with badlion, but if we leave his post up then we get emails from all the people whose similar posts we took down accusing us of bias because we let the popular guy have his post. Does this make sense?"

I feel like you have right to be infuriated. Yes, they removed your post, which was(more or less) related to UHC. But they did so to many others. I feel as thought you are overreacting a tidbit. The posts that were not deleted host reddit advertised matches and follow the banlist(which I'm not sure if you use, but they do catch hackers there). I do not feel as if there is as much bias as it is implied in this post. In a way, yes, but on my perception(yes, my perception is flawed) they manage well enough, at the very least. i'm not very good at this whole "discussion" thing but I felt like adding my thoughts on the matter.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 05:50 AM

bows hardly do anything with proj. prot. anymore

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 06:38 AM

We have a report section for this kind of stuff.

https://www.badlion.net/forum/category/8

Keep in mind the mods don't see every single thing that get said in chat. Also the one thing you can always do if you really feel something wasn't handled right is tag Archybot or myself. We respond to almost every tag within 24 hours unless we are on vacation (which rarely happens)

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 06:44 AM

I am not trying to sound cocky or arrogant here, but I think it is safe to say that the majority of your community knows about Badlion, and a lot of them probably play on it regularly for practicing. The post was aimed specifically to ask another community what they thought would be ideal for something for them. Your staff team has taken that away from them, and that is poor moderation. Something that we do not have to do, and I specifically went out of my way to go over your subreddit which I definitely do not frequent at all, and try to communicate with members outside of my normal reach, and it was shut down. Your team is supposed to be serving the community, and that is definitely not what was represented today, or in our past clashes with your staff. That post had no reports, no downvotes, and had good feedback/discussions on it.

This is exactly how I see it, and I still cannot get a definitive reason as to why that post was removed. I am told one thing by one person, another by another, and another by another. There is no structure to the staffing system over there from what I have really gathered. The mods just do what they want or feel like at the time. I spoke with some of my reddit UHC hosts that help host Badlion UHC's to get their input as well, and I was told by them (who have been reddit members for far longer than Badlion) that the moderation is very variable and is in fact not consistent at all.

I know also for a fact that there are also plenty of people in that community (some of the moderation included) who purely hate Badlion. Period. I absolutely hate MineHQ and HCTeams and everything that has to do with JHalt, but I do not let this affect my judgement of situations. I have no reason to be a fan of Stimpay who was recently banned by GCheat, and Archy is no fan of him either. Yet Archy went out of his way to look into the matter for someone who has repeatedly trash talked our server for years now, and in the end after investigating the situation with him found the he was not able to get banned by GCheat again. We own up to our mistakes around here to the best that we can. We have fixed issues with GCheat in the past and unbanned those innocently banned by it (sorry I didn't clarify earlier but GCheat is our custom anti-cheat which autobans certain hacks).

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 06:58 AM

1. Hate is part of the job. If a moderator wants to remain professional they own up to the decisions they make, the right and the wrong, and if wrong hopefully they admit to it and correct it to the best of their ability. Learning from mistakes is an important part of life. If a moderator is afraid to receive hate, then they are absolutely in the wrong line of work. Comes with the job.

2. I can guarantee if I did not mention the name Badlion and posted that under an alt reddit account that post would not have been removed.

4. The UBL is kind of a joke…550 people on it? I'm fairly certain you have more than 5500 players in your community. The 10% cheater/hacker rate is what is drawn from Badlion with 500k players and 55k banned cheaters. Our Ban list is 100x the size of your UBL, and most likely already has any users incorporated it into it who made their way over to Badlion. GCheat bans a good 300+ people on a daily basis on it's own.

5. I know for a fact that the moderators do not share opinions on this, because I was talking to one who completely agreed my post should not have been removed.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 06:59 AM

The counter examples I posted in this thread already disprove your first paragraph. I do not consider myself famous at all. I am a simple developer who builds things that interest me, and I try super hard to maintain and grow a community. Nothing more.

This is not the first time we have had conflicts with the UHC Subreddit's staffing.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 09:17 AM

Hardly seems fair to link an appeal without linking what you were punished for. Not to mention, Trikeri is a rather "high up" member of OCN, and what he did kind of warranted the punishment.

Personally, I don't think you were unjustified in doing this or saying this, but some things seem like hyperbole to me. I understand the reason OCN is being removed from the name of the two ladders, and honestly, that's not that big of a deal, but can someone elaborate on what I can and can't say on the forums and in game about OCN? I I do feel that the majority of the staff are a bit detached from the general OCN community, and there are some instances of bias, but there are also a lot of instances where regulars or higher ranked players have been punished, and the staff have stuck to those punishments. I have had a friend who, at the time, I didn't know was on an alt and was actually previously banned. He was a regular, a donator and was respected among the community. While he had grown more mature, and had made friends with people, the staff didn't back down on their decision. It seems unfair to brand a network as corrupt when a system of law (if you can call OCN's system that) is in place and in effect.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 09:33 AM

Refs are staff members.

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 11:12 AM

keep telling yourself that

Posted on 25 February 2015 - 11:13 AM

linked it elsewhere here.